'Massive' rise in use of incel sites

[ArabellaScott]

This is hugely alarming.

'The number of visits to hate-filled “incel” forums, where users discuss raping women, has increased more than fivefold in nine months, data shows.

Since March, UK web traffic to three of the largest incel — meaning involuntary celibate — websites has grown from 114,420 monthly visits to 638,505 in November,'

'Jonathan Hall, Britain’s independent reviewer of terrorism legislation, said it was not yet possible to say whether hateful incel content could be deemed terrorism.'

Hm.

One of the comments:

'If incels targeted any other group therewould be a massive outcry. Because they 'only' recommend torturing women the are in line with our patriarchal misogynist culture and people just tut mildly. It's scandalous.'

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/massive-rise-in-use-of-incel-sites-that-call-for-women-to-be-raped-hddbq5mgc

Oh no did the other thread get deleted? What the?

That is appalling. I'm not surprised though when social media brings these toxic men together.

Thanks for posting.

The way this is being handled is because it's "just women". Just like many other crimes against women easy to overlook,dismiss and minimise.

The increase is not surprising given the prevalence on SM, the culture we live in , the fact that women are finding their voice and not putting up with as much and the significant rise in male entitlement and aggression in other areas.

Instead of wondering why women are rejecting them and looking inwards, their first instinct is to punish them for doing so. Force them to accept them. Take what they want by whatever means necessary.

They hate us and they feel comfortable and free in expressing that hate online and in real life. The reaction to it? "Well... we'll think about it."

Very worrying and I had no idea this even existed until the murders in Plymouth

The other thread may have been deleted because the OP didn't have a times account so couldn't do a sharetoken, and so C&Pd it.

Here you go

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/massive-rise-in-use-of-incel-sites-that-call-for-women-to-be-raped-hddbq5mgc?shareToken=90b8b079a393f2bbbe9dfc2acfc67cb8

I had thought that the fact that incels and males who commit dv or VAWG are more likely to participate in terrorism might be enough to get people to take it seriously. They may end up harming men, too, you know!

Perhaps casually expressed misogyny is just so damn common it's impossible to monitor/police? As in the 'hate crime' laws, where misogyny is not included because it's too big a problem.

link.rbkc.gov.uk/portal/Home-grown--how-domestic-violence-turns-men-into/9GMYsdjVNRw/

'Terrorism is seen as a special category of crime that has blinded us to the obvious - that it is, almost always, male violence'

Some people really don't like women talking about male violence.

I really wish The Times hadn’t included the website address, these arseholes are only going to get more traffic

Of course, the impact of technology on incel rhetoric and groups should be kept in mind:

debugged.wilsoncenter.org/mass-killing-and-technology-the-hidden-links-b434ba6825e1

Another article on incels and terrorism links:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58207064

'The Terrorism Act 2000 sets out the definition as:

The use or threat of violence designed to influence the government, an international governmental organisation or to intimidate the public or a section of it '

Are women not considered a section of the public, then?

And a thoughtful look at whether or not it's useful to classify incel culture as terrorism:

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2021/08/incel-ideology-terror-threat-s-wrong-question-ask

' Regressive gender norms are very often at the core of radicalised world-views, from Islamist to far-right ideologies. But it is important to move beyond terrorism alone in how we understand the wider phenomenon of targeted hate. Within this broad spectrum of hybrid threats, terrorism does not hold a monopoly on violence, which can stem not only from ostensibly hostile organisations with clear political objectives, but also from loose movements that fuel and feed off conspiracy theories and extremism.'

That's one huge spike. This is extremely worrying.

@ArabellaScott

Some people really don't like women talking about male violence.

Read Why Men Hate Women by Laura Bates. It won't reasurre you I'm afraid but it will inform people and alert them to a huge and devastating extremism. It really should prompt a Prevent initiative if it is proven that a person is being radicalized. Difficult to prove though.

@ArabellaScott

Of course, the impact of technology on incel rhetoric and groups should be kept in mind:

debugged.wilsoncenter.org/mass-killing-and-technology-the-hidden-links-b434ba6825e1

Another article on incels and terrorism links:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58207064

'The Terrorism Act 2000 sets out the definition as:

The use or threat of violence designed to influence the government, an international governmental organisation or to intimidate the public or a section of it '

Are women not considered a section of the public, then?

And a thoughtful look at whether or not it's useful to classify incel culture as terrorism:

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2021/08/incel-ideology-terror-threat-s-wrong-question-ask

' Regressive gender norms are very often at the core of radicalised world-views, from Islamist to far-right ideologies. But it is important to move beyond terrorism alone in how we understand the wider phenomenon of targeted hate. Within this broad spectrum of hybrid threats, terrorism does not hold a monopoly on violence, which can stem not only from ostensibly hostile organisations with clear political objectives, but also from loose movements that fuel and feed off conspiracy theories and extremism.'

Spot on. Very frightening

@Smokeahontas

I really wish The Times hadn’t included the website address, these arseholes are only going to get more traffic

Would they do that to any other place which radicalises?

On an individual pschcological level what drives this? Why are men turning to these sites? Does anyone have a brother or son who has gone this route? What "radicalized" them? Why are some boys/men become incels and some not? How can they be turned around?

This is appalling

@toomanytrees

On an individual pschcological level what drives this? Why are men turning to these sites? Does anyone have a brother or son who has gone this route? What "radicalized" them? Why are some boys/men become incels and some not? How can they be turned around?

The short answer is because it's easy, plus a whole community that sympathises with you and agrees with you that whatever is wrong it's someone else's (women's) fault.

Goodness, women really aren't allowed to talk about this, are they? A huge issue to female people, and one page is already full of holes. Wonder if female people aren't being polite and nice enough in their approach to talking about it?

Frightening.

If incels targeted any other group there would be a massive outcry. Because they 'only' recommend torturing women they are in line with our patriarchal misogynist culture and people just tut mildly. It's scandalous

Spot on, sadly :(

I'd argue that this is the usual mix of nature, nurture and environment.

They are already maybe a combination of not physically attractive and/or not socially predisposed and/or short and/or overweight. If they were female they would be trained to believe that this is a moral failing which is their fault. And they'd spend time and money trying to correct it. However, men are taught (media, internet etc.) that men deserve a beautiful woman. Just look at comedies. Stunning woman/fat, ugly, ignorant man. It's a trope.

There's probably some trauma. Again, if they were female, they'd turn that inwards with eating disorders, depression, addiction and self-harm. But men are taught that anger is an appropriate reaction to trauma. Turning trauma outwards into violence (not always but more frequently). Men tend to be lower in empathy when tested. Nature or nurture, who knows?

Now they go online and are told that none of these feelings or facts are their fault. The support humans and whores have malfunctioned. You don't bother with a machine's feelings, you fix it. They're livid that these machines aren't acting how they are supposed to. Look at history and sociology. In every other time and place men own women. They do as they are told. The exact things which make women feel lucky (the vote, equalities law, work, medical science, contraception) make these men feel unlucky. They were born in the wrong time in the wrong place. Women's place is where men say it is.

And there you go.