Trans prisoners ‘switch gender again’ once freed from women’s units

[NutellaEllaElla]

Share token

Choice quotes:
"On Christmas Eve, Scotland’s prison population stood at 7,435, with only 259 listed as women. A total of 15 prisoners were trans, 12 of them trans women and three trans men. It is understood that all are currently held in female units as previous experience of trans men in the male estate had caused tensions."

"In England and Wales there have been a small number of incidents of violence and sexual violence involving female prisoners being attacked by trans prisoners....The study by Dr Matthew Maycock of Dundee University’s school of education and social work turned up no such disturbing behaviour in Scotland, with only some discomfort about very limited consensual sexual activity.

One Scottish Prison Service (SPS) source said: “There have been incidents, but very minor. No one can say for certain that nothing significant has happened, but if it has none has been reported.”

However, Maycock’s report did identify fears among female inmates of predatory behaviour by some trans prisoners, with one suggesting “the transitions of transgender people might be an attempt by paedophiles or other sex offenders to access cis-women in the female prison estate”.

Another woman told of a transwoman prisoner in her work party whose views “were totally wrong. He wanted to be in this hall because he wanted to have sex with loads of lassies.”

That's a pretty good trick: be male and commit a crime, go to jail and claim to be trans, be sent to a woman's prison, change back to male after release.

Of course, it would never happen.

@BlueberryCheezecake

Is there any actual evidence of trans prisoners switching gender when released? Any concrete examples of this happening? Because all we have here is the anecdotal presumption of one female prisoner which is being promoted as fact by the headline.

you could be right and this could definitely be something that never has happened and never happens because it definitely seems implausible that males in prison would take advantage of a system that promises them all the perks of a female prison

As it goes, I know Matthew Maycock. He's a nice guy, and no fool. It wouldn't entirely have shocked me if he'd demonstrated more insight into the particular vulnerability of women in prison. Bit disappointed.

The lyrics of The Auld Triangle need amended to reflect the new reality.

So transwomen are women but transmen are also women… interesting

Oh my goodness what a surprise, I’m so surprised. Who could have predicted something so surprising?

That's shocked me to my very core that has. I have met loads of men and the idea that male criminals would lie about something so they could get a cushy number and possibly get to see some tits, well, it's taken me completely by surprise.

“Very minor incidents” - oh well, that makes it okay then. FFS.

@heathspeedwell

Just read that the policy to place male offenders in women's prisons was signed off by Gordon Pike, then a manager in the Scottish Prison Service. And now a convicted paedophile.

And these people think they are 'being kind'.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sex-offender-gordon-pike-helped-set-prison-trans-rules-q8n3lnksv An interesting little read about him from a couple of years ago

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

So transwomen are women but transmen are also women… interesting

Indeed!

@RepentMotherfucker

That's shocked me to my very core that has. I have met loads of men and the idea that male criminals would lie about something so they could get a cushy number and possibly get to see some tits, well, it's taken me completely by surprise.

My eyebrows are right up by my hairline, I tell you.

@BlueberryCheezecake

Is there any actual evidence of trans prisoners switching gender when released? Any concrete examples of this happening? Because all we have here is the anecdotal presumption of one female prisoner which is being promoted as fact by the headline.

Louis Theroux did a film about the prison system in California some years ago. There were many prisoners who declared they were trans once they entered the prison system. They were mostly homosexual men before that, and in prison had ‘relationships’ with other prisoners who didn’t identify as TW and claimed to be straight. He interviewed one of the trans prisoners after they were released. He was no longer presenting as a woman, and admitted that many male gay prisoners ‘transitioned’ whilst inside because they had an easier life. The men using these trans prisoners were VERY male! When people are incarcerated, they will do whatever they can to make their time in prison as easy as possible. For a male rapist, who may well be treated particularly harshly by other male prisoners, they now have the ‘get out of jail free’ card in the form of self ID. Genuine transwomen who end up in prison deserve to be treated with dignity and safety - but this must be within the male estate or a separate prison for transgender prisoners. It cannot be at the expense of the safety and dignity of female prisoners. Ever.

@Namechangeforthis88

As it goes, I know Matthew Maycock. He's a nice guy, and no fool. It wouldn't entirely have shocked me if he'd demonstrated more insight into the particular vulnerability of women in prison. Bit disappointed.

Perhaps a generous reading of that paper is that’s it’s difficult to find a balance between differing views of trans prisoners especially in Scotland and he was navigating a difficult landscape? But the concerns did not have to be labelled as prejudice and I was surprised by his doing so given also the acknowledgment that these women had experienced male violence.

I'm also surprised. I would never have imagined that men in prison might take advantage of a loophole that might allow them to be housed in a less violent setting where they would be among the strongest and most powerful people there and also be able to see naked females, and possibly even touch some. I'm utterly surprised at the dishonesty of these prisoners.

Don't feel bad for not seeing it coming ladies. We're just bored housewives without a clue. Even the experts couldn't anticipate this. Who could have predicted it really?

Well, quite. I mean who'd have thought, back when they were hammering out the prison provisions according to Judith Butler's Big Book of Good Ideas for Lovely Parties, that the completely innocent and innocuous idea that people can change sex and indeed express their gender fluid desires freely without let or hindrance would have seen such surprising repercussions pop up like this?

It's a right shame, it is, that the nasty criminals have been spoiling it for everyone with their filthy big fibs.

@AlfonsoTheGoat

That's a pretty good trick: be male and commit a crime, go to jail and claim to be trans, be sent to a woman's prison, change back to male after release.

Of course, it would never happen.

I really think that if a male rapist/sex offender claims to be a woman, he should be put in a separate prison or wing with other male sex offenders who claim to be women. Not with other men due to "tensions" and definitely not with other women.

Aren't sex offenders normally put into a separate wing anyway? Male ones who are not claiming trans? I'm actuallt surprised/shocked that they are being put in with women, especially considering their crime.

The researcher exposed their own biases fairly quickly, at least in the sectioned quoted in the OP.

In England and Wales there have been a small number of incidents…

What is a small number when you are talking about sexual violence? Using the word ‘small’ in this context suggests insignificant and not worthy of further investigation. Is that how we approach sexual violence against women now? Oh, wait…

It all comes back to safeguarding, doesn’t it?

It's worth remembering the quote from James Morton of the Scottish Trans Alliance who said -

'We strategized – we strategized – that by working intensively with the Scottish Prison Service to support them to include trans women as women on a self-declaration basis within very challenging circumstances, we would be able to ensure that all other public services should be able to do likewise’.

It's a massive experiment, using some of the most vulnerable women in society, to ensure that when other public spaces are taken over that those pushing for the erosion of single sex spaces can point to prisons and say 'well it works there'.

Given the institutional capture of the prison system, it just highlights the bravery of the woman who brought about the recent judicial review. For those who haven't read it, it acknowledged the fear and risk to women by the inclusion of transwomen (including those convicted of sexual offences) in the female prison estate but concluded that transwomen being able to socialise with 'other' female inmates was more important.

What does this even mean? "with only some discomfort about very limited consensual sexual activity."

The really sad thing is the women report feeling confused and betrayed when the trans woman they have taken under their wing and looked after leaves prison and turns back into a man. How can they be expected to understand this?

“There have been incidents, but very minor. No one can say for certain that nothing significant has happened, but if it has none has been reported.”

What constitutes a "minor" incident?
Is there a sliding scale of minor to significant to so significant it mustn't be reported?

' senior SPS source said risk assessments are conducted before offenders born male and identifying as female are allowed into the female estate, and the validity of their claims is tested. “It is not, as some think, automatic on request,” the source said.'

Not heard that said before by prison peeps commenting on this topic.

Sounds like drivel to me. How would they assess whether invisible feelings are genuine?

He really should be pressed to give more info on that point...

How long before someone claims it was something no one could have foreseen?

Wait no, but this never happens does it?! At least that's what we're told 🤦🏻‍♀️