It’s their choice. No one holds a gun to their head.
The way some people go on on these sites it’s as if a woman is a pathetic being, who is constantly being controlled and can’t make up her own mind.
It’s boring as sin, hearing the same arguments over and over but but but….
I'm sorry you think ethics and morality and the rights of women and children are 'boring'. I think that says a lot about you.
Its a shame that you've never really stopped to consider why so many women, talking amongst themselves, have strong views about how women feel powerless and end up in situations where they make appalling 'choices'.
Its funny that for it to be considered a free choice you use the bar of them 'not having a gun to their head'.
At no point does it occur to you that women around the world do it out of desparation and precisely because they lack choices. Offering money to desparate women who are in poverty to do something that might kill them, disable them, mean they are ostracised from society, or because they are threatened by organised gangs is called what again? The word is 'exploited'.
Making a choice requires it to be made freely and not under extreme duress. Poverty and criminal financial gain are massive features here. Anyone who just ignores this as 'boring' really is quite something. We are talking about the human trafficking of babies here.
And then theres 'altruistic' surrogacy. Something that involves people doing it for a friend or family member. How can it be free consent if there is a couple you know in deep distress? This makes women feel emotionally responsible. Thats the very definition of feeling 'under duress' because if you don't do something someone else will be emotionally up shit creek. And it still involves giving up a baby at the end of it which after going through the physical side and mental side of pregnancy and childbirth isnt without consequences even is all goes well. The obligation. The trauma. Which many will surpress, hide or otherwise never speak of but still exists.
Then there's the women with addiction to being pregnant or who feel they need to do this to have purpose in their life and feel like they have done something worthwhile. Noting here that surrogates in this situation generally already have children. You have to question why they feel so worthless and why they are prepared to risk the security of their children - given they might die or have long term health problems resulting from the pregnancy which are no small consideration.
It raises questions about their self worth at the very least. How do you define 'vulnerable' again?
You don't have to have a gun to be coercised. Its very clear you've given no thought or consideration to coercion and how women all too often lack power or are vulnerable in ways that you aren't.
Thats great for you. It says you have a happy, secure life. It says that you feel able to say no. That you have amazing opportunities and choices.
Newsflash: millions of women just don't. They are far more likely than men to live in poverty. They are far more likely to be victims of domestic abuse. They are far more likely to be vulnerable and open to coercision. No guns needed. Good old fashioned emotional blackmail suffices often enough.
And thats without talking about the emotional issues that adopted kids and ivf donor kids have regarding identity and belonging which are hmmm 'pretty well documented'. Babies who have no rights or ability to seek out where they came from in many cases...
But yes its boring to be going through the same arguments constantly with people who are willfully and deliberately blind to the exploitation of women and commodification of babies. Because they lack any degree of understanding, compassion or empathy.
Hey why don't we just legalise modern slavery whilst we are at it. They signed up for it when they decided to enter the country illegally. They knew what they were doing when they got into prostitution. Lets just forget the whole inconvenience and boredom of talking about ethics. Or talking about what constitutes proper consent. I mean that's just life isn't it? And its sad and all that, but people have to survive and its 'doing good' to allow exploitation. I mean that way we never have a problem so we definitely don't have to address it.
This is extreme right wing economic thinking by the way.
The happy ever after family? Do i think it really exists? Well I think it satisfys the desires of those purchasing and procuring babies. Do i think the surrogates themselves do well out of it? No. Not even for so called altruistic surrogacies. I think the lack of voices says a lot. I think the amount of NDA agreements says a lot. I think the close family ties means there's many emotionally hostage and can't state their true feelings in the most honest of ways and they perhaps bottle it up or surpress it in other ways. Whats telling is when surrogate mothers do speak their stories are disturbing in so many ways even if they are supportive of the concept. The language of someone under control seeps through still.
And yes the kids who have not reached an age whether they start to explore this and feel able to challenge the decisions their commissioning parents made. And they too are somewhat held hostage by the very concept that they were 'manufactured to order' and would not exist if they hadn't been commissioned. Are we going to end up with kids who are riddled with over whelming guilt that they are the result of human exploitation?
Yes so sorry your bored by the debate.
Your boredom over the plight of women just reinforces the need to repeat over and over again indefinitely boring you.
Your entire comment above just says 'i want to silence this debate and I do not wish to be told repeated about the nature of human exploitation and coercion'.
The correct response to that attitude is to speak up against it even louder.
Good day to the tone deaf human traffickers and their supporters. We won't be silenced. We wont let you forget the inconvenient truths that surrogate advocates are so keen to white wash (yes a highly appropriate phrase).
The modern day trade in humans looks different to what it did in the past but its still very much alive and kicking.