Legal Q: Can we all require that the court calls us a made up name? re beastiality sex offender

[aweegc]

It appears that the sex offender with the blonde bob wig was not only not a woman (shock), but wasn't even legally either. Yet, this offender was able to require the court to call him a name that wasn't legally his and apparently apply pronouns too. Is this legally normal? I thought about posting this in legal, but I don't know how that board would respond to the trans issue involved here and I don't really want to discuss 'be kind' and all that. So, if Big Bazza a convicted drug dealer was in court on further drug charges, would he be called by his legal name Norman Nelly, or could he compel the court to refer to him in all addresses as Big Bazza (I do not mean the prosecution/defence using the name sarcastically/warmly to colour their positions) with pronouns boss/nails? If Lizard Man was in court could he compel the court to use his preferred pronouns green/slimy? In both hypothetical cases they are socially referred to by those terms.

Is there no rule for how to address defendants in court be based on legal reality?

The related article is in the DM. To avoid clicking on it, the only extra info really is that as his legal sex (article says gender) was male, he's in the male estate.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10340329/Transgender-paedophile-60-jailed-20-months-having-sex-dog-sent-male-prison.html

Don't be daft, if we did it (or turned up dressed like an elf) it would be contempt of court.

Is that because we don’t have the penis of power or the testicles of truth?

(That elf, though…. )

You can read what the equal treatment bench book says about pronouns from P324. Basically, you should always avoid using pronouns anyway (you should say ‘the defendant’ etc) but if you have to, you must use their preferred pronouns. www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Equal-Treatment-Bench-Book-February-2021-1.pdf

Reading with intrigue

I get what you’re saying, but what exactly is a legal name? You can change it yourself (if I’m understanding this link correctly?):

www.gov.uk/change-name-deed-poll/make-an-adult-deed-poll

[quote SickAndTiredAgain]I get what you’re saying, but what exactly is a legal name? You can change it yourself (if I’m understanding this link correctly?):

www.gov.uk/change-name-deed-poll/make-an-adult-deed-poll[/quote]
Yes you can change it yourself - and it's very simple in fact. I think it's about a tenner, or free. It's cheap anyway. It then has to be changed on your passport too, which is more expensive. It becomes your legal name though, so fair enough, that's how it's done. If you haven't even bothered to do that, then why should anybody be compelled to use it, especially in a legal setting?

Thanks Janice. That's a very interesting document. I checked out (briefly) some of the other sections to compare them to the trans section. Noticeably in the section about women the assertions of suicidal ideation, self harm etc are all supported by data. In the trans section there's no data to back up the assertions of daily violence, suicidal ideation, mental suffering due to covid (I didn't spot an equivalent mention in the women's section..) etc.

But yes, the court has to use whatever the trans individual is most comfortable with and also not disclose their trans identity. I don't have a such problem with this if they've got a GRA, but if it's just to make them feel comfortable when they've committed sex crimes, nah. I think it should be the other way, in that the trans identity should only not be disclosed if the defence can prove it's not relevant at a pre-hearing.

In the UK, your legal name is whatever name you choose use for legal and administrative purposes, provided it is a name you are generally known and called by. If you want to change your name, literally all you have to do is start using your new name. Deed polls exist as proof of a name change, since most organisations which hold your details will want to see some paperwork before they update their systems - but a deed poll itself is not required. So yes the offender is entitled to be referred to by whatever name they usually use, since this is their legal name as much as the concept exists in UK law.

So did the dog bark "he" and get sent to the kennel for misgendering the defendant in court?

Someone posted on another thread a while back that one of the (male) Extinction Rebellion leaders would give the name 'Kate McCann' when arrested. It was used in court proceedings, which meant his real name didn't end up in the papers.

* Pp mentioned bench book. This is HUGE problem.

Ok from memory. If anyone interested can find links.

Bench book is guidance for judges (not sure if used by others in courts) that they are expected to follow (must follow?) about the approaches, best practices, ways to approach things etc in court.

Quietly, and only found out when someone looked into it after a court case and was ??? about names etc.

Turns out the trans guidance section had been updated, without any general notifications etc, and the updates to be made came from one/ a couple of trans groups / maybe individuals with judge court type job.

I read it when thread on here.

It reads in terms of content and wording as if trans groups not just involved, but wrote it.

The fuxake ruling from... High court?
About males in female prisons.

Judgement.
Aok no probs.
Yes it's a risk and women will be harmed. Probably not loads though so that's not an issue ..

The judgement whole thing was straight out of the bench book.

This is a huge concern.

@MattDamon

Someone posted on another thread a while back that one of the (male) Extinction Rebellion leaders would give the name 'Kate McCann' when arrested. It was used in court proceedings, which meant his real name didn't end up in the papers.

That's a good idea. I will remember that if I'm ever prosecuted in court for saying men can't be women or causing grievous psychological harm by ribboning.

@MattDamon

Someone posted on another thread a while back that one of the (male) Extinction Rebellion leaders would give the name 'Kate McCann' when arrested. It was used in court proceedings, which meant his real name didn't end up in the papers.

Hang on, isn't that the name of the grieving mother of a child who went missing in Portugal?! How the AF was he allowed to choose her name?!

Why couldn't he just call himself John Smith?

Does this mean that any GC women ending up in court could bend themselves after..a certain GP? A certain golf-loving self-identifying lawyer?!

I'd be utterly fucked off if someone was using my name to appear in court. It'd impact my future work opportunities if someone googled my name! It's astonishing that it's allowed!

But using "Kate McCann" is just sick.

Thank you JaniceBattersby for the link to the bench book.Here's an excellent analysis by a respected barrister, Thomas Chako, evidencing how it is inherently biased in favour of the trans ideology in a way that openly discriminates against others - especially women:

policyexchange.org.uk/publication/prejudging-the-transgender-controversy/

And here's a reminder of the wonderful Maya Forstater's legal attempts to find out the details about the top secret trans training that self interested groups like Stonewall and Gendered Intelligence have been allowed to give to judges. Apparently members of the public must never be told about this training for .... reasons :

thecritic.co.uk/who-judges-the-judges/

All this explains why we are in this appalling position

Hang on, isn't that the name of the grieving mother of a child who went missing in Portugal?! How the AF was he allowed to choose her name?!

Ah, apologies, I hadn't made the name connection. It's a very common name, so I can't see how it can be permitted or not depending on whether it's already someone else's name.

What happens when an offender asks to be called his victim's name, or another name that is not suitable to refer to him by, like a rude name?

@BitMuch

What happens when an offender asks to be called his victim's name, or another name that is not suitable to refer to him by, like a rude name?

Exactly. Where's the line, or is there none?

Another Kate McCann is also a reporter, on Sky I think.

Kate McCann surely immediately for most people Madeline McCann is first thought.

I've seen this before...

I have a feeling one transwoman used a name referencing a v much disliked vocal radical feminist who was sex> gender.

I have a feeling her views have changed somewhat but not relevant.

It was a fuck you to her.

If I identified as innocent then surely that should be affirmed?

Wasn't there a really violent bloke who demanded, and got, your majesty?
I think it was in Scotland

@CheeseMmmm

Kate McCann surely immediately for most people Madeline McCann is first thought.

I've seen this before...

I have a feeling one transwoman used a name referencing a v much disliked vocal radical feminist who was sex> gender.

I have a feeling her views have changed somewhat but not relevant.

It was a fuck you to her.

Probably but I watch the BBC and Sky news channels alot and to me the first thought is the reporter as I see her on TV most days.

@CheeseMmmm

Kate McCann surely immediately for most people Madeline McCann is first thought.

I've seen this before...

I have a feeling one transwoman used a name referencing a v much disliked vocal radical feminist who was sex> gender.

I have a feeling her views have changed somewhat but not relevant.

It was a fuck you to her.

I remember my horror at finding a transwoman had picked the name Sara Payne, the name of the mother of the murdered child Sarah Payne.

I think they must have changed their name again now, or they're no longer active on social media, but someone else spotted it too.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3350834-StickerWoman-The-leaflets-stickers-are-still-working-keep-it-up?msgid=80640565#80640565