People are being mean to Caroline Nokes when she's just trying to be kind

[RoyalCorgi]

That's the gist, but if you feel so minded you can read it in full:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/23/why-am-i-being-abused-for-trying-to-improve-gender-recognition-process

Stray full stop! I meant believe it or not, we're being given more consideration, not believe it or not I agree with you!

Stray confused face! That was in response to Nokes ' confused reasoning.

Actually, the more I think about that article, the more I’m raging… Trying to get any new legislation through needs absolute attention to detail and consideration of as many possible points of view as possible.to bemoan ‘I am just trying to be kind’ is naive at best…

She has a reputation as being thick as mince and so does fellow committee member Caroline Dinenage.

Remember politics in the olden days, when they expected to disagree with each other and knew they'd have to be able to argue their case? When did they all get replaced by pod people Career Politician Lite?

The main thing for me. Is that CN is a politician, an MP.

I would expect if wanted to react to the reception of report.
Would be, this is recommendations main points.
We took evidence from xyz orgs and individuals (named in report are women good eggs) would need to do that both views.
Considered. Report 160 pages etc all reasoning etc in there.
Not as being presented
Etc.

Not.
People being mean!
Did my best! Want to be nice!
Misinformation!
Not fair me sad :(

I mean FFS supposed to be a grown up.

Discuss the incorrect info, correct it!

Not this oh noes my report being dissed peeps horrible. I worked really hard! Etc.

It genuinely sounds like she’s just read the most basic headlines of Twitter and come out with ‘be kind, jkr is mean, it’s just toilets, women won’t be affected, most vulnerable.’

Appreciate I'm being slow on the uptake but I've just actually read it and seen this bit
They also have to live in their acquired gender for two years (something they need spousal consent for),

Caroline had a golden opportunity to address some of the issues of the GRA - to clarify the privileges, rights and limitations and consider how it interacts with the Equality Act 2010.

She has not been remotely impartial in this, having made her position extremely clear even before the consultation started.

Not just an MP. She was Chair - the fucking Chair - of the Women and Equalities Select Committee and she still thinks this is about 'whether someone is feminine or masculine enough?'

Do your job,

@TinselAngel

Appreciate I'm being slow on the uptake but I've just actually read it and seen this bit They also have to live in their acquired gender for two years (something they need spousal consent for),

Oh for goodness sake!

FPFW need to take a red pen to this, mark all the errors and send it on to Liz Truss and Johnson. This isn't disagreement, this is just basic incompetence.

I mean it's an oddly innocent, child like idea, that trans widow's exes ask our permission for all the things they do! It must be nice to live in Noakes world.

I just don't understand how you can proposed a legislative change to a process without even having grasped the basics of how it works now. And then to merrily expose your ignorance in an article in a national newspaper. It gives me no confidence in the people who rule over us.

@TinselAngel

Appreciate I'm being slow on the uptake but I've just actually read it and seen this bit They also have to live in their acquired gender for two years (something they need spousal consent for),

I know I shouldn't be, but I'm always surprised at how little people like Nokes know about the GRA in its current form and what their proposed changes would really mean.

She thinks that spousal consent is required before someone can 'live in their acquired gender' and that NHS waiting lists are somehow connected with getting a GRC, and still would be under self ID.

Having proposed that all safeguards should be removed so that someone could just sign a form to change their legal sex she says "The suggestion that someone could change legal sex on a whim is quite patently nonsense; the process takes years." Which is an argument in favour of keeping the law as it is, not to remove all the safeguards which would make it possible for someone to change legal sex 'on a whim'.

Jess Phillips didn't understand the law when she was a member of the WESC either so it's becoming something of a tradition.

But even the TRA's who deliberately misrepresent the law don't have the audacity to get it this wrong.

@TinselAngel

I mean it's an oddly innocent, child like idea, that trans widow's exes ask our permission for all the things they do! It must be nice to live in Noakes world.

She's been played like a fiddle.

Not to mention from listening to/watching the evidence there is plenty of the committee feeling lovely complete with headtilt. It used to be that the civil service worked harder than this to protect public figures from embarrassing themselves.

It used to be that the civil service worked harder than this to protect public figures from embarrassing themselves.
Yes I was thinking, surely it's somebody's job to brief them about the law?

That great article by jo Bartosch has reminded me of Nokes' predecessor, Maria Miller. Chair of the WESC really is the job for shambolic, inept and dodgy MPs

Lazt government committees (and local government committees) pretty much allow the civil servants to write the reports for them.

It goes something like this:

Civil servants write a brief
Committee meets to agree it
Civil servants draft a list of witnesses in consultation with the Chair
Committee meets and 'takes evidence'
Civil servants write up report
Committee meets to discuss it
Civil servants produce final report
Committee meets to sign it off
Chair is 'exhausted' by all her hard work

If a single one of those civil servants has an agenda, or an area of incomptence, and the Chair doesn't know their shit, then that agenda / incompetence leaks into every aspect of the final report, because it's been there since the initial brief stage and has stayed there throughout, like a virus.

Modern civil servants are woke as fuck, have been indoctrinated into Stonewall Law, and are not great critical thinkers.

Nokesy got sold down the river but only has herself to blame.

I blame Hayley Cropper… the lovable Coronation Street character tapped about in her ill fitting clothes and we were all sympathetic to such a warm and charming character avoiding the reality of their birth certificate and NI id.
Now, would we as a nation have felt the same if the character had been played by a natal born man?

@RoyalCorgi

I just don't understand how you can proposed a legislative change to a process without even having grasped the basics of how it works now. And then to merrily expose your ignorance in an article in a national newspaper. It gives me no confidence in the people who rule over us.

I suppose if there's no logical / factual / scientific underpinning to an ideology then it''s inevitable that anything written about it is likely to be full of the same factually incorrect, ideologically compromised woowoo?

So if it’s not a health condition, presumably it doesn’t need treating via the national health service?

I get that its an opinion piece but doesnt the Guardian still have to fact check, or correct errors?