Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

How to tackle school

79 replies

EarlyModernEnglish · 23/12/2021 08:33

I’d really appreciate some practical advice.

There is a trans girl at my daughter’s school who is sometimes present in the girls’ changing room when my daughter and her friends are getting changed. My daughter is 11; trans girl is 16. Daughter says she and some of her friends feel uncomfortable with this but don’t dare say anything for fear of being called transphobic.

I know this isn’t a new issue and has probably been discussed on here many times, but I’d really some tips for an effective, calm approach to follow in the current climate. I am so cross at the thought of these young girls being made to feel uncomfortable. My daughter is anxious about any action because she desperately fears being called transphobic.

Thank you.

OP posts:
Leafstamp · 23/12/2021 08:39

I will post something more helpful shortly but why is there a 16 year old in there at the same time as an 11 year old? How does your daughter know this person is 16? (Year groups have different aged students in).

hedgehogger1 · 23/12/2021 08:44

Single sex spaces are protected by law. Complain. That's not on.

Original poster
EarlyModernEnglish · 23/12/2021 08:46

I think they might happen to have games/PE at same sort of time? I’m not sure. It’s a big school with lots of sporty activities happening.

I know the trans girl is 16 or 17 (year 12). I actually know more about the trans girl in question than my DD does due to this being a small city and various connections I have. My daughter just happened to mention the situation to my husband yesterday and he the mentioned it to me as he wasn’t impressed.

OP posts:
Original poster
EarlyModernEnglish · 23/12/2021 08:48

@hedgehogger1

Single sex spaces are protected by law. Complain. That's not on.
Would you go straight to the head? And what specific information would you go armed with? (Sorry for being a bit needy - I am anxious about this!)
OP posts:
Shedmistress · 23/12/2021 08:51

Then both of you need to step up and contact the school and make sure your daughter and her class mates are not in the same changing rooms as a 17 year old male.

sashh · 23/12/2021 08:56

Well the school has to follow the equality act and they also have a duty of care.

Your dd has a legal right to a single sex place to change, the trans girl does not have a right to a single gender space.

I'd be stating the law and asking for their risk assessments.

Tagliatelevision · 23/12/2021 08:58

There are some really good posts on this thread containing the information you might want to arm yourself with.

Legal rights of gender dysphoric yr 8 boy to be placed in a girls dorm www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4372780-Legal-rights-of-gender-dysphoric-yr-8-boy-to-be-placed-in-a-girls-dorm

You could also contact the Sex Matters organisation...they are excellent at replying. I know the need to feel informed & equipped with the right info before going to to complain!

porridgecake · 23/12/2021 08:59

Google Safe Schools Alliance. You will find lots of advice there.

WarriorN · 23/12/2021 08:59

You might find key info and letter templates here:

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/

Tagliatelevision · 23/12/2021 08:59

Also try Safe Schools Alliance

FrancescaContini · 23/12/2021 09:00

The school has to provide single sex spaces - it’s the law.

I’d go straight to the head. This is a very important issue and all those 11year old girls should be provided with privacy when getting changed.

FrancescaContini · 23/12/2021 09:01

And tell your DD that it’s not remotely transphobic to demand no males are present - it’s basic safeguarding.

Original poster
EarlyModernEnglish · 23/12/2021 09:03

@Shedmistress

Then both of you need to step up and contact the school and make sure your daughter and her class mates are not in the same changing rooms as a 17 year old male.
Tbf I know this - hence starting this thread in order to make sure I get my approach right. Don’t really appreciate the chiding tone!

Thanks so much for all the practical suggestions and links from pp.

OP posts:
FrancescaContini · 23/12/2021 09:05

Check Dept of Ed guidelines online.

WarOnWoman · 23/12/2021 09:13

Ugh I lost my post but the gist of it was use this fact sheet to quote the relevant bits of the law in an email as well as talking about privacy, dignity and safeguarding of the girls. (Allowing a 16/17 bio male to change with age 11/12 girls is a massive failure on the schools part - wtf are they thinking.). Ask for a meeting to discuss this with the Head. Depending on the schools response, you can escalate by getting more parents on board (I would begin to do this already), going through the schools complaint procedure and contacting the governors.

WarOnWoman · 23/12/2021 09:16

And yy to risk assessment/impact assessment

NancyDrawed · 23/12/2021 09:19

Have a look at your school's policies.

I will have to tackle our school after the holidays as they have a gender recognition policy which misrepresents the law in the usual way (ie trans pupils can use the facilities they feel most comfortable in). It may be that your school has a similar policy, which can be challenged on a legal basis. Our school is all rainbow logos, though so I think they are very much under Stonewall's thumb.

I haven't looked at the safeguarding policy yet, but I imagine there will be conflict between the two.

I intend to go very factual, as in 'your policy says this but the law (quote relevant part of EA) states this'

I also imagine I'll end up talking about Maya's case and point out that while teaching about acceptance is good, gender identity ideology is a belief system and therefore lack of belief in it is protected in law. (My children are fully aware of sex vs gender)

Original poster
EarlyModernEnglish · 23/12/2021 09:30

Thank you all so much. I now know where to start!

OP posts:
Doubletoilandtrouble · 23/12/2021 09:31

Get all the information you need and book a meeting with the head. Focus on your daughter’s need of a single sex spaces and how young girls are uncomfortable with their bodies even without a person with a penis in their changing rooms.

Also, try to talk to other mums. We have an incredibly diverse community in our school and many of DDs friends are Middle Eastern, Indian or Pakistani . They actually wet other mums even before a play date and are very careful with whom they trust with their children even for an afternoon. We have single sex schools but the trans teachings (new provider against guidelines) went down extremely badly and the school is revisiting provider and content. Any bepenised person in their daughters’ changing room and there would be an uproar

oldwomanwhoruns · 23/12/2021 09:39

And when you talk to the school. OP, don't use their language!
He is a boy (or preferably, say young man). DON'T use 'trans' anything. That's their batsh*t language.

NancyDrawed · 23/12/2021 09:43

The other point which I haven't got clear in my head yet is:

If a male pupil who says he feels like a girl is allowed into the girl's changing room, then it follows that all male pupils should be allowed into the girls changing room. The male who feels like a girl is no less male than any of the others!

Then we're back to language and pronouns and how:

'The girls don't want Alex to change with them, but she feels that she should be allowed in with the other girls'

gives a totally different picture to:

'The girls don't want Alex to change with them, but he feels that he should be allowed in with the girls'

I avoid confrontation and am nervous about tacking the school where my children go, but I can't just stand by and let the slow erosion of the rights of the girls happen.

Beowulfa · 23/12/2021 09:44

Girls being made to feel uncomfortable in changing rooms, then being made to feel bad for feeling uncomfortable. Absolute insanity.

As well as the Equality Act details mentioned above, I would also quote the recent depressing stats on sexual attacks on girls in schools, and ask them how they plan to deal with this if girls are being taught that expressing concern is "phobic".

titchy · 23/12/2021 09:54

Ask whether they'd let Mr Jones the PE teacher supervise girls changing? Then ask if Mr Jones decided to bring his authentic self to work and wanted to be known as Miss Sarah Jones, would they then let him supervise the girls changing rooms. Because Mr Jones would then be Miss Jones the woman teacher. So why not?

Leafstamp · 23/12/2021 10:15

You’ve had some good advice here. From my experience I would go straight to the Head, he/she can always delegate it, but then it’s still Head’s responsibility if that makes sense.

Might be some useful info here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4423700-Boy-in-girls-changing-rooms