How to tackle school

[EarlyModernEnglish]

I’d really appreciate some practical advice.

There is a trans girl at my daughter’s school who is sometimes present in the girls’ changing room when my daughter and her friends are getting changed. My daughter is 11; trans girl is 16. Daughter says she and some of her friends feel uncomfortable with this but don’t dare say anything for fear of being called transphobic.

I know this isn’t a new issue and has probably been discussed on here many times, but I’d really some tips for an effective, calm approach to follow in the current climate. I am so cross at the thought of these young girls being made to feel uncomfortable. My daughter is anxious about any action because she desperately fears being called transphobic.

Thank you.

So pleased to see this question raised. PE is an area where mixed age changing rooms often happens, eg timetable reasons, sports clubs.
So if the sport is swimming then that's every 11 year old having to strip naked in front of a 17 year old male who identifies as a girl .
Hopefully OP you've got enough advice from here to make a strong complaint. The Safe Schools templates and checklists are brilliant to help parents navigate this safeguarding disaster.

Huge safeguarding issue right there. I’d be livid.

One of my dd's friends is a trans girl. She changes in a single cubicle toilet. Simple. I told my dd that if she (the transgirl) came into the girls' changing rooms then my dd and her friends were to queue to change in the toilet. The school are sensible about it and the transgirl is respectful, so there is no issue. This is exactly how it should be.

@ANameChangeAgain

One of my dd's friends is a trans girl. She changes in a single cubicle toilet. Simple. I told my dd that if she (the transgirl) came into the girls' changing rooms then my dd and her friends were to queue to change in the toilet. The school are sensible about it and the transgirl is respectful, so there is no issue. This is exactly how it should be.

I hope the toilet is either unisex or boys toilet?

Also, why are you teaching your daughter to move out of the way of a male comes into a female space?

If your DD’s friend comes into the female changing room your daughter should be telling a teacher straight away, not inconveniencing herself.

@oldwomanwhoruns

And when you talk to the school. OP, don't use their language! He is a boy (or preferably, say young man). DON'T use 'trans' anything. That's their batsh*t language.

Yes. Stick to biological truth.

Would your husband complain ? Men often have very robust ideas about their young daughters being around teenage boys.

Follow the school’s complaint policy, which must be on their website, and articulate everything that is laid out on this thread. If you don’t follow the complaints policy, the school won’t care, or be obliged to do anything.

@ANameChangeAgain

One of my dd's friends is a trans girl. She changes in a single cubicle toilet. Simple. I told my dd that if she (the transgirl) came into the girls' changing rooms then my dd and her friends were to queue to change in the toilet. The school are sensible about it and the transgirl is respectful, so there is no issue. This is exactly how it should be.

Why should the girls get changed in the TOILET? They should be able to get changed in the girls’ changing room itself and not cramped up inside a toilet cubicle.

I don’t understand why you think this is okay for all those girls.

I'm sure you don't want to hear this, but the people on this thread telling you the law is obliged to provide single sex spaces in the sense of "no trans allowed" are flat out wrong - this is a misreading of the Equality Act, as demonstrated recently by the AEA's failed challenge to the EHRC's guidance. Single sex spaces can legally be trans inclusive, and in fact are obliged to be trans inclusive unless there is a justifiable reason why they shouldn't be (and service providers can still choose to be trans inclusive regardless of what anyone else thinks is justifiable or not). So if you go in there all guns blazing saying "This is illegal", you're quite simply wrong and the school will tell you so.

Just so you know OP, the poster of the immediately preceding post is not above spreading misinformation to support their activism.

But they still need to show that they have deliberately made that choice and assessed the risks involved to all concerned.

So if you go in there all guns blazing saying "This is illegal", you're quite simply wrong and the school will tell you so.

Another who is desperate to allow 16 year old boys to change with 11 year old girls.

What is wrong with these people and why are they so keen on this?

Tbh. I wouldn't go all guns blazing either. I would say precisely what your specific concerns are and ask the school why students of different ages and different sexes are changing in the same area. Your DD is uncomfortable with this arrangement. Her dignity and privacy are as important as anyone else's.

The bottom line is girls and women should be able to say no to males being in their spaces when they are in a state of undress.

The fact that in 2021 Britain there are people too scared to speak up about this is shocking. (Not a criticism of you OP, I just can’t believe it’s got to this point).

Single sex services such as changing rooms are protected by the Equality Act;

(6)The condition is that—
(a)the service is provided for, or is likely to be used by, two or more persons at the same time, and
(b)the circumstances are such that a person of one sex might reasonably object to the presence of a person of the opposite sex.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/3/part/7/crossheading/singlesex-services

@ANameChangeAgain

One of my dd's friends is a trans girl. She changes in a single cubicle toilet. Simple. I told my dd that if she (the transgirl) came into the girls' changing rooms then my dd and her friends were to queue to change in the toilet. The school are sensible about it and the transgirl is respectful, so there is no issue. This is exactly how it should be.

If the trans child is changing in a single toilet cubicle why are you telling your DD and her friends that they should queue to use the loo? Why change a situation that already has a solution?

Your DD and her friends should remind the trans child to use the toilet if they come into the changing room. The girls should not have to vacate their single sex space.

Or maybe the boys should be educated to accept gender non-conforming boys in their changing room?

Poor little 11year old, how absolutely grim for them.

No matter how often I see it I am always when I see adults arrive on these threads and insist that girls must be compelled to undress in front of a 17 year old male identifying as the opposite sex.

Despite the hopes of one poster, the EHRC technical guidance for schools does not state that children self identifying as the opposite sex must be allowed access into the opposite single-sex space. It suggests that a suitable alternative might be to allow the pupil to use private changing facilities, such as the staff changing room or another suitable space.

fairplayforwomen.com/equality-act-2010_womens-rights/

This is an open attack on the rights of girls to have privacy, safety and to establish boundaries. It's a disgrace.

Notable that posters saying it's against the law post links and facts and the one who says it's well within just asserts it with no evidence.

Seems to be the theme with all things gender.

@WarriorN

Notable that posters saying it's against the law post links and facts and the one who says it's well within just asserts it with no evidence.

Seems to be the theme with all things gender.

Indeed. It's almost as if they're telling lies.

@Shedmistress

So if you go in there all guns blazing saying "This is illegal", you're quite simply wrong and the school will tell you so.

Another who is desperate to allow 16 year old boys to change with 11 year old girls.

What is wrong with these people and why are they so keen on this?

Yes, I was wondering about this too.

I mean, why would you actually SUPPORT a 17-year-old male being in the same changing room as 11-year-old girls? I asked my DS for his opinion and he was aghast at the idea and said it was “very weird, why would a boy want to do that?”

@BlueberryCheezecake

I'm sure you don't want to hear this, but the people on this thread telling you the law is obliged to provide single sex spaces in the sense of "no trans allowed" are flat out wrong - this is a misreading of the Equality Act, as demonstrated recently by the AEA's failed challenge to the EHRC's guidance. Single sex spaces can legally be trans inclusive, and in fact are obliged to be trans inclusive unless there is a justifiable reason why they shouldn't be (and service providers can still choose to be trans inclusive regardless of what anyone else thinks is justifiable or not). So if you go in there all guns blazing saying "This is illegal", you're quite simply wrong and the school will tell you so.

The justification is that females do not have to be placed in any situation where they may be undressed, being examined or receiving any other intimate procedure in the presence of males - which is what transwomen are as well you know. THAT is the law. Why are you trying to justify males being allowed in females changing rooms? Don’t you believe in safeguarding?

I was thinking that all the girls queuing to use a single toilet would mean the PE lesson would not happen as it would be over before they’d assembled enough in kit and on the pitch/in the gym to do anything meaningful. And then reverse would ruin whatever lesson came next - chaos ensues and perhaps the school realises the error of its ways.

@lanadelgrey

I was thinking that all the girls queuing to use a single toilet would mean the PE lesson would not happen as it would be over before they’d assembled enough in kit and on the pitch/in the gym to do anything meaningful. And then reverse would ruin whatever lesson came next - chaos ensues and perhaps the school realises the error of its ways.

This is what the dreadful trans guidelines that the Crown Prosecution Service devised actually said. Girls who were unhappy undressing in front of a random boy should be excluded from their changing rooms . The contempt for girls that was embedded in those guidelines was very telling. Sadly they withdrew them rather than subject them to judicial scrutiny. Such a shame as it would have been glorious to see them try to justify them - and the publicity would have alerted parents to precisely how this ideology views the rights of girls to privacy and boundaries.

@WarriorN

Notable that posters saying it's against the law post links and facts and the one who says it's well within just asserts it with no evidence.

Seems to be the theme with all things gender.

I cited the recent legal case which proves conclusively it's within the law, AEA vs EHRC. If you're unfamiliar with the case, it's easy to google - the gist is AEA tried to challenge the EHRC's advice that under Equality Act 2010 single sex spaces should usually be trans inclusive, their challenge was rejected as "wrong in law" (direct quote from the judge). Organisations like SSA and TT who've chosen to ignore this ruling because they don't like it are giving out demonstrably incorrect advice.