Maureen Lipman says cancel culture could destroy comedy

[ArabellaScott]

Article on how 'cancel culture' is affecting comedy. Mentions Dave Chapelle, JK Rowling and others. Some pertinent points:

'nearly a third (29%) of people who hold gender critical views said they always or mostly don't say what they really think when they are talking about this controversial topic.'

No shit.

It would have been interesting to see how many people polled hold those views.

Oh, ffs.

Article:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-59703257

Front page BBC news.

I am an amateur stand up. The world of comedy has been moving towards less offensive for a few years now and I think that's no bad thing. I don't want to hear jokes about dead migrants, and much though I'm gender critical I don't want to hear jokes at trans people's expense any more then I want to hear jokes about GC people.

This bit is utter bullshit;

"Something has to be forbidden to make you laugh, really belly laugh. It's when you shouldn't be laughing," she said. "All the things that have been cancelled out by being correct are, I'm afraid, all the things that make people laugh."

I also don't think it's that big a thing to hear that people self-censor themselves even they have viewpoints that go against the norms of the people they are in company with. TRAs have done an impressive job of making it seem like acceptance without exception is the social norm, when that's perhaps.. not accurate.

Yes it's a problem that women with GC views are unable to voice them for fear of being ostracised, criticised, and downright bullied and threatened. I just don't think this is an article that speaks to that very much.

I rolled my eyes very hard at Russell Kane saying he doesn't think so, no one's saying you can't be offended.....then admitting he signed up to a service that deletes his tweets after 6 months 🙄

I also don't think it's that big a thing to hear that people self-censor themselves even they have viewpoints that go against the norms of the people they are in company with

People self censor even before they know the viewpoints of the people they are in company with

Well, it's worth discussing, Grimchas.

I noticed the other day that many of the people speaking up are comedians.

John Cleese
Ricky Gervais
Robert Webb
Dave Chapelle
Graham Linehan

And there are also a fair few speaking in defence of 'genderism'

Comedy seems to be on the edge of issues, I suppose that's to be expected. Comedy is subversion, at heart. I don't even mean 'shock jocks' type of stuff, I mean the whole point of comedy is to pierce social mores and cut through convention, isn't it?

MummBRa, I thought that was incredible. Nobody's being cancelled, but he deep cleans his social media regularly to protect himself.

Oooh sorry meant I agree, but i also think that etc…

I mean, I'm not a fan of cruelty in comedy, I think there has to be middle ground between Jim Davidson and ... I dunno ... Hannah Gadsby?

I don't think it's a bad thing if comedians stop telling jokes at the expense of gay people, trans, disabled, poor, female.

This bit is utter bullshit:
"Something has to be forbidden to make you laugh, really belly laugh. It's when you shouldn't be laughing," she said.

Well as a consumer of comedy, all I can say about that is that it resonates with me very strongly.
I think there's something almost primal about laughing about things you're not supposed to laugh at. It takes me back to my childhood and sniggering in quiet corners about bums and willies and once getting a fit of giggles during a funeral. It's much bigger than political jokes though.

And Russell Kane.... How anyone can earn a living as a comedian while having so little self awareness is a bit of mystery to me.

Russell Kane.... grin How anyone can earn a living as a comedian while having so little self awareness is a bit of mystery to me.

I remember him on an after-show episode of IACGMOOH. A celeb, I think Britt Ekland, made a playful jab at something he said about her, and he appeared on screen very po-faced to earnestly explain why she should not have been offended at his joke. Total buzzkill.

I should add that I don't think everything offensive is funny or that everything funny is offensive.

There's an article in the Times today about Armando Iannucci defending 'the right to offend'.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/armando-iannucci-thick-of-it-creator-backs-right-offend-comedy-satire-fqkwqq8x5?shareToken=b8a70cf6c8ff052458611a09f9129090

She's talking toot isn't she? I can't think what she could mean really.

My first thought was James Acaster and Michael McIntyre and concluded she's a deluded out of touch attention seeker. Why she would be given airspace on 8am BBC new I have no idea.

Why she would be given airspace on 8am BBC new I have no idea.
What a marvellous line, given the topic of this thread

@Floisme

Why she would be given airspace on 8am BBC new I have no idea. What a marvellous line, given the topic of this thread

The irony is noted.

I do remember Bernard Manning. We used to go along to his shows and disrupt. He was really offensive but he found us very intimidating. That was the sort of sexism we could deal with, because no one was trying to pretend it was something other than misogyny.

I worry that people aren't being forgiven minor errors. An example would be Change UK (not related to comedy) where an MP became very confused about her wording. She had to go, apology not acceptable. I find the relentless search for offense to be very off putting. There are lots of things I don't want to hear jokes about but my solution is not to buy tickets for the event, or not to laugh when someone tells a joke I don't like. This was always a better way. Purity spirals drag down the whole of society and prevent progress.

I read a thread on twitter yesterday by a woman who took her niece/s to the panto to with her wife and left because the ‘jokes’ were so revolting and sexual she was horrified. But these are ok. Men dressed as hideous women and making jokes about sex and genitals is absolutely hunky dory.

I read a thread on twitter yesterday by a woman who took her niece/s to the panto to with her wife and left because the ‘jokes’ were so revolting and sexual she was horrified.
I read that too - the examples she gave of "jokes" were appalling. Not entertaining at all. I also think there is a big difference between making fun of trans people (not acceptable) and coming from the point of view that women are biologically female!

As Mitch Benn put it on Twitter, there has always been something like this looming over comedy over the decades - political correctness, etc - and it's still here. But this demand to see people's career's ended is an escalation that does seem to be new.

Maureen Lipman's contribution was one of the least interesting bits in that story! It was interesting to see Simon Fanshawe quoted at the end (talking sense as always), and Gervais.

Unfortunate to have GC thinking conflated with anti-immigrant sentiment as something you 'can't say these days' though.

I'm guessing that there will be a similar backlash, as happened in the 90s after we endured a similar self-censorship from the politically correct phase.

In fact, I think the current Cancel Culture phase is a reaction to the edgy comedy and shock jocks that were around a few years ago.

I mean, it is striking how many comedians are saying they are inhibited by cancel culture.

The thing about being silenced is that nobody can hear it. You'll only hear people saying this type of thing: 'I'm scared to talk'

Terry Gilliam

www.bbc.co.uk/news/59127144

Stephen Colbert: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2591529/CancelColbert-Comedian-Stephen-Colbert-fire-racially-offensive-tweet-Comedy-Central-shows-account.html

Kunal Kamra: scroll.in/latest/1011874/comedian-kunal-kamras-bengaluru-shows-cancelled-amid-threats-to-shut-down-venue

• I started looking for cancelled comedy, but there is just so much I gave up.

Chris Morris has some interesting thoughts:
'As a species, we are not negotiating very well with the means we have created for sharing ourselves with little panic buttons,” '

www.indiewire.com/2019/09/chris-morris-interview-the-day-shall-come-1202175870/

Triggernometry have a few relevant interviews. Here are two 'cancelled' comics:

Nick Dixon:

Chris McGlade:

And Chris Rock on cancel culture:

'Rock said that the fear of being criticised for problematic remarks has resulted in a lack of risk-taking among comedians, as well as “unfunny comedians” and “unfunny” content across film and TV.

“Some people need to be looked out for,” he added, “I definitely understand that. But not letting comedians work is, you know — what happens is everybody gets safe and when everybody gets safe and nobody tries anything, things get boring.”

“Everybody’s scared to make a move,” said Rock. “That’s not a place to be. You know, we should have the right to fail because failure, failure is a part of art.”'

www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/chris-rock-cancel-culture-spiral-b1851250.html

For something that people still claim doesn't actually exist, there do seem to be rather a lot of comedians saying that it does, and talking about how it impacts them.

“I am an amateur stand up. The world of comedy has been moving towards less offensive for a few years now and I think that's no bad thing. I don't want to hear jokes about dead migrants, and much though I'm gender critical I don't want to hear jokes at trans people's expense any more then I want to hear jokes about GC people.“

I don’t especially want to here jokes like this either. I’m certainly glad comedy is getting less racist.

But then I think about the fact that Graham Linehan, whose ‘crime’ being gender critical, and who keeps his comedy and politics pretty separate, is being told to take his name off the credits of the Father Ted Musical. That pisses me off, it feels reminiscent of McCarthyism. Who gets to be the arbiter of moral taste, or what is progressive/PC?

Interesting, thanks Arabella, I think Chris Rock says it better than Maureen Lipman.