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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

DH called me transphobic

45 replies

JesusCrumbsSuperStar · 21/12/2021 20:18

That's it, he called me transphobic. Why? Because I voiced my concern for a relative who is trans and going down the route of surgery. I can't voice these concerns in my own home anymore, apparently.

Very close relative (I don't want to disclose relation or gender) has told us they are proceeding with surgery. This individual is a young adult who is not employed, in education or currently even leaving the house. Infact, they refuse to pursue anything other than gaming and use of the internet. Parents of individual are being manipulated, IMO. 'I need x surgery or I will kill myself' 'I can't get a job until it happens or I will kill myself'. This is what I have issue with, I am not being transphobic. I'm deeply concerned that the only coping mechanism this person has is an online community of like minded people, possibly encouraging this approach? My DH told me to stop referring to this as demanding and manipulative and see it as a necessity. Ffs, I have 3 children. Our parenting values don't align anymore, clearly, but that's another issue. JK Rowling is an absolute no no in the household this individual lives in. Censored I am going to say. I have always whole heartedly agreed with JKR and have been horrified by the harassment and abuse she receives.

I'm scared of the world my children are growing up in, I'm worried my DH will give in to similar demands if such issues arise within our immediate family without enforcing and encouraging any other routine/education/employment or activity that doesn't please our children and what they think is best for them at that time. Trans relative is an adult but is a dependent and doesn't seem to think adult life is an option until surgery happens.

Apologies for the lack of information and if this is not a well placed thread. I guess I've come to an online forum for support, which maybe stinks of hypocrisy as I criticise somebody else for doing the same but I'm being silenced in my own home and I don't like it.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 21/12/2021 20:26

God, that sounds hard, OP. I'm so sorry.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 21/12/2021 20:31

Does DH have any understanding of the issues or is he of the beeeeee kiiiind persuasion

I’d be bloody furious if my DH said that to me tbh - does he think that’s a word he can use with no consequences?

Signalbox · 21/12/2021 20:32

That sounds really stressful OP Flowers

PicsInRed · 21/12/2021 20:36

Your husband sounds dim.

For you --->> Flowers

Cherryana · 21/12/2021 20:36

Could you ask him to read the article that another posted about the gay man who moved from positions to being GC.

I read it on here the other day.

Sad as it is, sometimes a man will listen to another man, even if he is saying the same things.

EarthStoodHardAsPrion · 21/12/2021 20:40

How is your relationship in other ways? Is it his relative, rather than yours (if that’s not too much information)?

I can imagine he might feel unable to challenge his close family and thus feels as if he’s in an impossible place. Is that possible?

I don’t know what to say really. I’d be outraged if a partner accused me of “being transphobic” rather than giving some kind of acknowledgment of the nuance and complications. Sounds very difficult.

PermanentTemporary · 21/12/2021 20:42

One thing at a time. Your relatives surgery doesn't require your input. Your children aren't questioning their sex at the moment. Nothing is urgent.

I would let things calm down. You might choose to have another discussion with your dp another day, somewhere neutral like a pub. Maybe almost with debate rules about giving each other ten minutes uninterrupted to talk at a time while you listen properly to each other. But you could also choose just to leave it as something you don't agree about. The threat to your relationship is real and urgent.

I have two young trans friends and I can both support their requests re name and pronouns while privately disagreeing that they are anything other than the sex they were born, and being desperately worried about such young people permanently medicalising themselves in a way that is sold, God help us, as 'healthy'. My views are not required and the only thing they ask of me is pronouns. It's taken a while to think through that but my wish to treat them as they want to be treated leads me to that conclusion.

I also have a very old friend whose partner has come out as nonbinary, a concept I can barely restrain my contempt for, and the origin of this change in their life is so bloody obvious it might as well be wearing a hi viz jacket. Again, my views are not required and all I have to do is support my friend.

Offer family support to the relative as you would anyone going through a medical experience. You don't have to facilitate it - I don't donate to medical treatment fundraisers for quack cancer centres or for this. Dont deny what you feel to your dh but you actually can agree to disagree.

Original poster
JesusCrumbsSuperStar · 21/12/2021 20:48

My family hence why I am particularly upset by this. We are all close and DH is definitely 'be kind'.

@PermanentTemporary this sounds sensible. I think I will take a step away from the situation, I have been particularly concerned and wound up about this for a while and it isn't doing me any good I don't feel.

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 21/12/2021 20:49

That sounds very hard OP. And for the family involved.

Those discussions may be better left for the news to settle. I take it you will have no influence regarding this operation going ahead? Therefore take some time. Too much information can be overwhelming.

It is very difficult to have a spouse/partner who you disagree with on such a thing. Flowers

WorriedMumsDontSleep · 21/12/2021 20:54

There was a great thread on life expectancy the other day. I'd read that if I were you so you have literal science at your fingertips should the issue be forced again.
You have my sympathies, I'd not be happy if DH couldn't see the misogyny for all the be kinds.

Salamander76 · 21/12/2021 20:59

I think this is the article a pp mentioned… perhaps your DH should have a read: duncanhenry.substack.com/p/tra-to-gc?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=direct

Sorry he’s being such an arse about this, OP.

EarthStoodHardAsPrion · 21/12/2021 21:01

I think I will take a step away from the situation, I have been particularly concerned and wound up about this for a while and it isn't doing me any good I don't feel.

There is an extent to which you have no power to do anything here. Assuming it was my sibling’s child, I might try to have a private conversation with my sibling, as I’m not sure I could forgive myself if I didn’t at least try.

Beyond that, I think I would go for a no reproach/no discussion approach. Accept they may create an appalling situation and simply offer support, if/when they begin to fathom what they’ve done,

The situation with your husband is a separate matter. I asked, in my last post, how is your relationship otherwise? I would be very uncomfortable with a partner who accused me of being a narrow minded bigot and would wonder how he could arrive at such a conclusion, as it would indicate he doesn’t know me at all.

Onlinedilema · 21/12/2021 21:14

I think for your own sanity you should take a step back. Agree to call them by whatever name they choose. Don't get dragged into anything. Don't speak to your dh about it, if he mentions it say 'You know my feelings about this.' And leave it at that.

ScrollingLeaves · 21/12/2021 21:55

That article Salamander76 posted is very interesting apropos your husband as the writer explains how he came to see J K R had not been transphobic at all.

Your relative holed up in his room has made himself unwell by doing so as well as no doubt bringing himself under the influence of many on line pressures.

This sort of hiding away behaviour among teens has a word in Japanese I think. There some teens used to resort to this following a failed exam or other disappointment. Perhaps your relative had some problems before which now he won’t get help with.

You could show the young person’s parent some general information

ScrollingLeaves · 21/12/2021 22:00

Posted too soon:
General information posters here could gather for you. Maybe the parent could try to get the young person some psychological help on the understanding they should do this first, and surgery etc not precluded.

As it is your relative, it is none of your DH’s business if you speak to the parent.

You would need to be quite close to your relative for them to accept this.

ScrollingLeaves · 21/12/2021 22:03

This is the phenomenon of hiding in on’s room recognised in Japan:

“Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms? - BBC News

www.bbc.com/news/magazine-23182523
www.bbc.com/news/magazine-23182523.amp”

KittenKong · 21/12/2021 22:07

Show him photos of the surgery, explain that suicide rates are if anything higher after surgery. This is why you are worried - this person must be in a very dark place indeed to be going off down this route.

Just plastering on a smile and saying ‘yes dear, if that makes you happy!’ is not ‘being kind’.

Leafstamp · 21/12/2021 22:18

@PermanentTemporary

One thing at a time. Your relatives surgery doesn't require your input. Your children aren't questioning their sex at the moment. Nothing is urgent.

I would let things calm down. You might choose to have another discussion with your dp another day, somewhere neutral like a pub. Maybe almost with debate rules about giving each other ten minutes uninterrupted to talk at a time while you listen properly to each other. But you could also choose just to leave it as something you don't agree about. The threat to your relationship is real and urgent.

I have two young trans friends and I can both support their requests re name and pronouns while privately disagreeing that they are anything other than the sex they were born, and being desperately worried about such young people permanently medicalising themselves in a way that is sold, God help us, as 'healthy'. My views are not required and the only thing they ask of me is pronouns. It's taken a while to think through that but my wish to treat them as they want to be treated leads me to that conclusion.

I also have a very old friend whose partner has come out as nonbinary, a concept I can barely restrain my contempt for, and the origin of this change in their life is so bloody obvious it might as well be wearing a hi viz jacket. Again, my views are not required and all I have to do is support my friend.

Offer family support to the relative as you would anyone going through a medical experience. You don't have to facilitate it - I don't donate to medical treatment fundraisers for quack cancer centres or for this. Dont deny what you feel to your dh but you actually can agree to disagree.

I do see where you’re coming from on this, it’s good advice if something out of your control is really taking it’s toll on your mental health and/or close relationships.

However, such a hands off approach in the OP’s scenario makes me feel a bit uncomfortable if I’m honest.

This young person’s mental state is not one that is appropriate to be making decisions about irreversible surgery. If it needs to be OP to point this out then OP should.

MrsMadderRose · 21/12/2021 22:25

Trans relative is an adult but is a dependent and doesn't seem to think adult life is an option until surgery happens.

There couldn't be a clearer example of how this can be a displacement / psychological issue, pushed in the direction of "trans" by online influencers.

Like a PP I would have to say something to someone, just to feel I had tried and even if it resulted in me being disowned. I would also be asking DH to explain exactly what's transphobic about a concern that someone could be doing something they'll later regret, and why he doesn't think that's a possibility. It's a perfectly reasonable concern. I'd also ask him to explain what trans, transphobia and gender mean in a logical way and I'd debate until the cows come home, but that's what Im like.

(I'm glad I split up with my ex before this stuff all happened, as he's fully taken in by the propaganda and always spouting the "most oppressed" narrative on twitter - which drives me mad as he's a scientist and hasn't even bothered to check the facts.)

Cheshirewife · 21/12/2021 22:36

Hate to say it but, based on your description, your DH sounds more reasonable. This isn’t your battle so all you can do is support the family member once they’ve made their choice.

PriamFarrl · 21/12/2021 22:46

It’s not really anything to do with you or your DH to be fair. It’s heartbreaking to see someone you love who is so clearly traumatised but this is not you DC. If this person’s parents started chipping in on the way you are parenting I don’t think you’d be happy.

However the issue here is that you and your DH don’t agree with this situation. I see that you are worried that if your DC were in a similar situation then he’d be for and you’d be against. But you are worrying about something that hasn’t happened yet, and the next few years in this persons might change one of your minds.

ScrollingLeaves · 21/12/2021 22:56

Saying nothing at all to a relative when you see possible harm about to happen is not always right just because it would mean minding your own business to not say anything.

It is a very difficult predicament but if the OP knows the relative well perhaps they could bring it up with them in a sensitive way. The relative must be at their wits end with this young person and might welcome some different perspectives.

PrincessNutella · 22/12/2021 03:17

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VortexofBloggery · 26/12/2021 09:15

Solidarity OP. Being at odds with your partner over something so fundamental would be incredibly stressful. The trans issue aside, you DO need to be able to express your opinions under your own roof. Your DH doesn't have to like it or agree, but you have the right to speak. There must be things he says that you don't agree with? Is he forbidden to speak about them at home? Keep talking.

HereticFanjo · 26/12/2021 09:29

The online thing is the harmful bit. I agree the trans thing is a useful displacement. The mistake was allowing this young person to hide out in their room avoiding connection to real life and spending all their time in the gaming community.

If they thought they needed to actually work to fund their surgery they might be a bit more proactive.

People like your husband are infuriating because they feel a moral certainty they have no right to have. They haven't wrestled with the complexities of these issues, they just parrot soundbites.

I understand your worries for your young relative. Sometimes I think it is a truly shitty time for teenagers to be alive. They only hear one side of the story online, not the other side where post surgery people are left mutilated and sometimes in chronic pain. Any transitioners expressing regret or discomfort are told to stfu because it doesn't fit the 'brave beautiful butterfly being my best self' narrative.