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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Is Transgender a sexuality?

68 replies

ScrollingLeaves · 14/12/2021 23:33

A local school describes “Transgender” and “Questioning” as “sexuality” in the wording of their inclusivity policy. I can can see questioning might be seen as a sexuality but as it is from Q in LGBTQ, I had thought that meant Queer, and I thought transgender was to do with identity not sexuality.

Could anyone explain?

The policy says that no one must be discriminated against because of

“Differences of………

o sexuality (e.g. Lesbian, Bisexual, Gay, Transgender, Questioning - LBGTQ)”

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 14/12/2021 23:42

No. Trans is on a different axis to sexuality (sexual orientation) - trans people can be any of heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual. 'Questioning' is ambiguous - could refer to questioning sexuality or gender identity.

JellySaurus · 15/12/2021 00:43

Lazy thinking. "The way those letters are always bundled together means they're sort of the same, or about the same thing anyway, and erm whatever."

CheeseMmmm · 15/12/2021 00:45

No it's not.

They are in a muddle (not at all surprisingly!).

The only thing I can think of is when a straight male transitions they become a lesbian.

I think the school is just confused though.

Enough4me · 15/12/2021 01:06

Sexuality is attraction to the same (homosexual), opposite (heterosexual), or either (bisexual) sex. It's an innate sexual drive.

Transgender is about gender ideology, i.e. responding to feelings on stereotypes and chosing which one to follow (and some believe gender can change through the day and say it's fluid).

CiaoForDiNiaoSaur · 15/12/2021 01:08

'Questioning' is ambiguous - could refer to questioning sexuality or gender identity.

Personally I'm questioning the meaning of life.

Enough4me · 15/12/2021 01:08

@CheeseMmmm, women can be straight or lesbians, not men as lesbians are women attracted to other women.

CheeseMmmm · 15/12/2021 01:12

Yes. Obv.

I was talking about the views of gender > sex people.

BreadInCaptivity · 15/12/2021 01:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

CheeseMmmm · 15/12/2021 01:33

Stonewall has published, and still on site.

Homosexual outdated medical term.
Use a different term.

Lesbian/ gay means attracted to same GENDER.

Stonewall- stonewall FFS- openly state.
That same sex attraction is not a thing, needs no words to describe. Doesn't exist.

It's unbelievable.

Enough4me · 15/12/2021 02:00

I'm heterosexual and don't want to have sex with women.

Can I still say that?

Samoyeddad · 15/12/2021 02:08

It’s not a sexuality, no. I’m both trans and heterosexual. The schools wording was off, the term questioning applies to both sexuality and gender but questioning your gender is not questioning your sexuality, they are very different.

CheeseMmmm · 15/12/2021 02:25

What's your take on straight person becomes gay depending on gender id?

I know loads of lesbians and a good amount of gay men are really fucked off about that.

Interested- don't know what you think and seems pertinent.

nauticant · 15/12/2021 08:38

Trans used to mean transsexual. Since then it's broadened hugely and now includes gender non-conforming, the fetish of cross-dressing, and, of late, a pure self-determined identity concept.

It's unsurprising that it's now said to include sexuality.

At this rate trans is going to cover everyone but not everyone will be entitled to say they're trans. That will be exclusive to those who are true believers in the gender identity ideology. At that point it's transformation into a religion will be just about complete.

Artichokeleaves · 15/12/2021 08:53

The leverage of being able to have T in a list with sexuality has enabled the reframing of sexuality to mean identity, which has enabled reframing LGB as a choice of identity and not a sexual orientation.

Hence why now homosexuality is once more a sin, with the worst of the scribes and the pharisees who would insist they are LGBT+ (and allies of that political position) harshly policing those who will not conform to the Teachings and wish to actually be LGB instead of serving the political Word.

It's another example of where people being tolerant and willing to embrace the diversity being required, discovered that actually the words didn't reflect intent or actions, and that they have kindly enabled their own oppression. From within. By those who now claim to speak for them. And will punish them severely for doing anything but conforming.

DoubleTweenQueen · 15/12/2021 09:00

I can see the LGB Alliance over-shadowing and seeing the demise of SW 🤞. Well, in my more positive moments.

ArabellaScott · 15/12/2021 09:12

Some of the labels/terms under the Stonewall umbrella are paraphilias. 'Cross dressing' for example, is not a sexuality or orientation, but a paraphilia.

And there is of course the debate on autogynephilia, which some people claim is part of transgenderism, and some claim not. This is part of Ray Blanchard's teaching on the subject.

So to answer your question, OP, I would say 'sometimes'.

Artichokeleaves · 15/12/2021 09:55

@DoubleTweenQueen

I can see the LGB Alliance over-shadowing and seeing the demise of SW 🤞. Well, in my more positive moments.
It really doesn't have to be one or the other, there is room for all and that's actual diversity, if there is mutual respect and tolerance.

Stonewall need to honest and own that they are TQ politics organisation and that is what joins all that they speak for: not any other characteristic. And that is fine. However they have to tolerate LGB also having a voice, having different beliefs, and that law and society need to tolerate and live alongside homosexuality and TQ politics.

They do conflict. They cannot both exist in the same place. It's exactly like the issue with women's rights: the right of males to use all spaces by identity cannot exist in the same place as the need and right of females for a single sex female only space. The answer is diversity of provision and tolerance. And the lack of tolerance to permit anyone else's voice to be heard and needs to be met or to allow diversity of provision to exist alongside their provision because others need it? That is an issue that the TQ political camp need to address, because it's their issue.

It's a very big issue. And it's the root of all the problems here.

EmpressCixi · 15/12/2021 09:58

Transgender is technically not a sexuality. But they list it under sexuality in order to assert that it is a protected characteristic against discrimination per the way the law is written. It’s square peg, round hole. But that’s why they do it.

ArabellaScott · 15/12/2021 10:11

Oh, thats odd. Stonewall used to include 'cross dresser' in their terms of 'what does trans mean'.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20201214224353/www.stonewall.org.uk/what-does-trans-mean" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20201214224353/www.stonewall.org.uk/what-does-trans-mean

But if you look at that page now it seems to have vanished.

www.stonewall.org.uk/what-does-trans-mean

Are they moving away from supporting cross dressers?

nauticant · 15/12/2021 10:17

The link most commonly referred to still has crossdresser included:

www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/faqs-and-glossary/list-lgbtq-terms

ArabellaScott · 15/12/2021 11:00

Ta, nauticant.

'Trans

An umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.'

'Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois.'

Crossdresser is the interesting one, there. Is that an identity? It seems to be described on wikipedia as a fetish. Are any other fetishes described as identities?

Samoyeddad · 15/12/2021 11:53

Wait is it under C? I only see Cisgender and Coming out listed there

Enough4me · 15/12/2021 17:26

@ArabellaScott
"Are any other fetishes described as identities?"

Like the massive one starting with an A that leads the way and requires us all to look the other way?

ArabellaScott · 15/12/2021 17:39

Under 'trans', Samoyed.

ArabellaScott · 15/12/2021 17:39

Sorry, Enough, I am looking at this interesting bit of the floor, over here.

Swipe left for the next trending thread