Is Transgender a sexuality?

[ScrollingLeaves]

A local school describes “Transgender” and “Questioning” as “sexuality” in the wording of their inclusivity policy. I can can see questioning might be seen as a sexuality but as it is from Q in LGBTQ, I had thought that meant Queer, and I thought transgender was to do with identity not sexuality.

Could anyone explain?

The policy says that no one must be discriminated against because of

“Differences of………

o sexuality (e.g. Lesbian, Bisexual, Gay, Transgender, Questioning - LBGTQ)”

@DoubleTweenQueen

I can see the LGB Alliance over-shadowing and seeing the demise of SW 🤞. Well, in my more positive moments.

This is so optimistic I love it 😂

Gender identity has nothing to do with one's sexuality. They're different things entirely.

Even if your motivation for transitioning (from M to F) were pure AGP and nothing more, that's a paraphilia and not a sexuality.

Trans and sexuality obviously do cross lines, they can't not.

(So you've changed gender but are still attracted to the same sex of people you were before and so now you'll need to self identify into a different sexual orientation, which in my opinion is a crock, trans people should choose a different word to eg "lesbian" but that's quite a heated topic so...)

@ArabellaScott

Some of the labels/terms under the Stonewall umbrella are paraphilias. 'Cross dressing' for example, is not a sexuality or orientation, but a paraphilia.

And there is of course the debate on autogynephilia, which some people claim is part of transgenderism, and some claim not. This is part of Ray Blanchard's teaching on the subject.

So to answer your question, OP, I would say 'sometimes'.

What is a paraphilia, exactly? I did Google, but I'm still not clear on the difference between this and sexuality.

I think it's classed as a disorder in the DSM, scratched. But I have no expertise in this area.

And from wiki it all looks contested and subject to revision: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraphilia#cite_note-DSM-5,_intro-2

What is a paraphilia, exactly? I did Google, but I'm still not clear on the difference between this and sexuality.

I think the OP probably meant 'sexual orientation' by the term 'sexuality' - the LGB

...sorry, pressed post accidentally...
LGB plus heterosexuality. The entirely commonplace range of whether you're attracted to the same sex and/or thr opposite sex.

Paraphilias, on the other hand, are 'atypical sexual interests'. The first definition I found was A psychosexual disorder in which sexual gratification is obtained through practices or fantasies involving a bizarre, deviant, or highly unusual source of sexual arousal such as an animal or an object.

...so something distinctly different from LGB and H orientations.

In answer to the OP’s question: no. It’s a belief. A bit like flat earthism or the tooth fairy.

What is a paraphilia, exactly? I did Google, but I'm still not clear on the difference between this and sexuality

Paraphilias are listed in the DSM, but being heterosexual or homosexual is not. I'd simply believe the experts on this.

There have been decades maybe centuries of philosophising on whether being gay is a paraphilia or not, and it's been concluded for a very long time that it's not.

I think when you look at it, a paraphilia is not simply consenting sex between two adults, there needs to be something else involved.

You can be homosexual or heterosexual and not have any paraphilias at all, or you can be homosexual or heterosexual and have any number of paraphilias. Eg, S&M is found in gay couples and straight couples. Paedophiles can be attracted exclusively to either same sex or opposite sex children.

A paraphilia runs alongside someone's sexual orientation, and features arousal involving non human objects, suffering/humiliation, or non-consenting persons.

^oh yeah I read "sexuality" as "sexual orientation" 🙄

it's been concluded for a very long time that it's not.

1973, removed from DSM.

*I think when you look at it, a paraphilia is not simply consenting sex between two adults, there needs to be something else involved.

You can be homosexual or heterosexual and not have any paraphilias at all, or you can be homosexual or heterosexual and have any number of paraphilias. Eg, S&M is found in gay couples and straight couples. Paedophiles can be attracted exclusively to either same sex or opposite sex children.*

Isn't paedophilia a paraphilia then?

I meant, you can be a heterosexual or homosexual which aren't paraphilias on their own, with a paraphilia of paedophilia.

Likewise you can be heterosexual or homosexual which aren't paraphilias, with a paraphilia for masochism towards the people who you are sexually attracted to.

The paraphilia works alongside the sexual orientation.

Paraphilias are overwhelmingly present in males.

Includes everything from sexual attraction to objects, to flashing, to cross dressing, to voyerism, and etc lists are available.

Often more than one apply to same person.

Iirc cross dressing is very common/ the most common.

"Paraphilias are overwhelmingly present in males."
We all know this, but everytime stats show this or the high male sexual offence rate to women, we have to be reminded NAMALT and please think of the TW who may be hurt by men, and men are hurt by men you know... we are told to change the subject, be quiet, haven't you said enough already.

Oh I see. That’s really weird as cross dressers are not transgender 🤔

Thank you everyone for your answers.
I did think sexuality meant whether you were attracted to the same or other sex, or both,
and that gender identity was not a sexuality.

It is confusing that the school wrote this given it is the top selective school in this region, where the sixth form is almost like a university, so you would think they would be more exact and thoughtful.

Among replies explaining possible reasons why there might be some ambiguity leading to ‘transgender’ possibly being seen as a sexuality,
@CheeseMmmm yes, I can see that when a heterosexual man becomes a trans woman he might say he was a lesbian.
@Linguini I think that may be what you mean in saying transgender and sexuality cross.

Cases of some trans women claiming they were lesbians, and expecting lesbians to accept them as partners, was written about in an article recently to point how wrong that is, and it is so very wrong that it shouldn’t be part of a school’s interpretation of transgender as a sexuality. You would think they would be aware of that?

Where trans women are autogynephiliacs there is a cross over with sexuality, but isn’t that an aspect not generally admitted to as part of the belief system? So probably not what a school would want to imply admission of.

@EmpressCixi, you suggested they might just be putting everything together in a list of protected characteristics and making a square peg for a round hole, and that could well be true, but it seems sloppy given their aspirations for rigorous standards. I did not write out the whole list of protected characteristics they had written separately (that came before “sexuality”) in my OP, but it included ‘gender’. So it almost seemed intentional when they re-entered transgender under “sexuality”. ( See screen shot)

What they wrote is based on the Equalities Act (2nd screen shot) but then stirs it a bit I think.

I was interested to look at the school’s Diversity Policy wording having heard there is trans gender ideology going on at the school, and pronoun badges are starting to be worn by staff.

Sorry, people I’ve mentioned, if I have paraphrased you wrongly. I didn’t want to try to go back and forth between the two pages of answers while writing.

Thank you all again. I apologise for my delay in replying.

@Samoyeddad

Oh I see. That’s really weird as cross dressers are not transgender 🤔

How do you know? Why would the two be mutually exclusive?

Why are you asserting you know the gender identities of a whole group of people?

How do you know it's one or the other? No way both?

That's a really massive assertion.
Why do you think that and why so confident that it's correct?

Well I'd agree with Samoyeddad - that someone wearing clothes they personally identify as being for the opposite sex as themselves, and wearing them for that reason because in some way (usually sexual?) it pleases them to wear them, is not trans. But it is also true that Stonewall has or does include cross dressers under the trans umbrella. Which was always straightforwardly daft, but presumably recognises that a proportion of cross dressers become trans. What defines the crossover moment isn't for me to say.

And the obvious point which is never even considered, but means hate, bigotry etc.

If a man has paraphilia wearing women's underwear, clothes etc.

Then being able to do so any time and be taken for member of oppressed group, rather than perve. Why not take advantage of that?

And given everyone is to assume they are trans and so never a perve. That's a result for them obviously.

Yes? No?

The fact that any suggestion that a man would EVER take advantage of accomodations for trans people.
Or lie about being trans.
Especially ones with certain sexual interests.

That means ALL males are trustworthy, honest, ethical, decent etc...?
And in this case it's males with certain sexual interests...

Really? REALLY?

@Enough4me

I'm heterosexual and don't want to have sex with women.

Can I still say that?

No no, apparently unless willing to have sex with a biological female who presents male (short hair, hoodie) you're a TERF. Feel free to come join our line of proud TERFS

'Well I'd agree with Samoyeddad - that someone wearing clothes they personally identify as being for the opposite sex as themselves, and wearing them for that reason because in some way (usually sexual?)'

But WHY this assertion that the two groups are mutually exclusive?

There's no grounds for that. It's a massive assertion across a huge amount of people.

Why could a man with this interest never be... Non binary. Agender. Or any of the other list of genders?

And why could a male with a trans identity never have a pretty common sexual interest?

They're totally different things. And people can be complicated, contradictory etc.

The insistence that no male with a trans identity.

That we must assume when someone male is in a women's area. Irrespective of how dressed, how behave, radar going off etc.

Only if a crime if a crime is committed against a woman or girl, may we doubt.
And if that happens the assailant can only be 'cis'.

I mean come on.

The insistence that women and girls IGNORE our instincts, turn off the radar. In certain circs.

Given the scale of sex offences committed by men, ie vast numbers (rarely reported, police not interested in many). The instruction to trust all males is not just ridiculous, but dangerous.

And saying these obvious obvious things. Is hate. And incitement to violence even murder.

@redbigbananafeet if being heterosexual makes me a TERF I'll join the group

I can't switch heterosexuality off and be attracted to women anymore than a lesbian can pretend to desire a penis.

In the recent 'gender a wider lens' podcast with Debbie Hayton. Debbie (who is agp and trans) talks about how they consider agp to be a sexuality.