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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Denmark's former immigration minister is JAILED for ordering asylum seeking couples to be separated if one was a minor in a bid to stamp out child marriage

63 replies

FreeBritnee · 13/12/2021 19:47

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10305175/Denmarks-former-immigration-minister-JAILED-ordering-separation-asylum-seeking-couples.html

So they’re jailing women now for safeguarding children. I suppose we knew it was just a matter of time.

OP posts:
CheeseMmmm · 16/12/2021 00:22

2019 article on Denmark about social attitudes, political stance, some actions around immigration by govt etc.

Context is really important.

If course may not change views etc. That's not my aim in posting this

I think the context is important.

CheeseMmmm · 16/12/2021 00:26

Sorry for repeating myself!

I don't know if any posters who are for blanket approach, given our laws on marriage allow 16, and Denmark 18, have any thoughts on that?

KimikosNightmare · 16/12/2021 01:17

I suppose it seems likely that the law in England and Wales will increase to 18

BBC News - MPs back raising minimum marriage age to 18 to protect children
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59344731

That's going to be interesting as this is a devolved issue for Scotland and NI. NI will remain 16 with parental consent and Scotland 16, with no need for parental consent.

Scots law has always given young people greater autonomy than English law so this will be interesting. I'm not aware of any particular calls to change it beyond this.

www.togetherscotland.org.uk/news-and-events/news/2021/06/uk-government-commits-to-raising-the-legal-age-of-marriage-to-18-in-england-and-wales/

I'm not aware of it being discussed at Holyrood and it isn't in the Scottish Law Commission's headlights. The SNP is always determined that Scotland is indeed another country and to aways do things differently from England. Plus it would stick in Sturgeon's craw to adopt a Tory idea.

The age of consent in Denmark is 15

CheeseMmmm · 16/12/2021 01:37

That's all irreverent to the point though.

Currently the law allows marriage 16 here.

The minimum age to marry in Denmark is 18.

That's simply factual.

And extremely relevant to this thread.

I'm interested in what the posters who think blanket approach in Denmark is right thing to do. Think about the fact that currently our law is seen as child marriage in many countries, including Denmark.

KimikosNightmare · 16/12/2021 01:54

I don't think the blanket approach was correct.

CheeseMmmm · 16/12/2021 02:46

Ah the age consent was about 15yo dane Pg 15 sorry didn't get that bit.

It's an aside really though, point taken, doesn't make difference not key point or anything!

FlyingOink · 16/12/2021 04:49

I find it faintly astonishing that all the women - girls, really - saying they hadn’t been coerced into the relationships was given such weight. Because they’re not going to say anything else on arrival - which complicates things even for the “Romeo & Juliet” spouses: being close in age is no guarantee of it being a safe, happy & voluntary relationship

Yes exactly. I think it's unlikely these are love marriages.
The existence of a wife, or a wife and kids, helps the case of these men. There is a motivational factor there.
If the wife is a child, that extra weighting given to his immigration case shouldn't exist.
In allowing child marriages in some circumstances Denmark is allowing this extra weighting and therefore encouraging these men to grab a female child en route as a wife. Because it is likely to make a big difference to the outcome for the male, whose journey is often a huge investment for his family. Often the family sink tons of their assets into getting him to Europe.

Posters suggesting that him being around is sometimes going to be beneficial for a girl need to explain why they think that. Why a child marriage is sometimes a good thing. Support in pregnancy? Well why is she pregnant at fifteen anyway? Oh yeah, it's because it suits him. He then has two dependents. He's then a "family man".

Separating them and treating cases as individuals might seem harsh, but if you see it as harsh then presumably you see child marriage as ok sometimes. It's not ok. It's not something that's a positive for a young girl.
And in a situation where the husband is likely to have no assets, no means of working, and is as unlikely to speak Danish as she is, I can't see what practical support an older husband could offer a child.
Assessing each on a case by case basis legitimises child marriage. It says it's ok sometimes.
Worst case scenario, she stays and he is deported, for example. Are these fifteen year old girls protesting to have their 30 year old husbands allowed to stay? Are they arguing that he's a great support? I'm not seeing that. Not anywhere.

Even referring to it as a blanket approach suggests that enforcing rules against child marriage is somehow strict and unfair. Being married to a child shouldn't be something that is supported some of the time.
I'd be very surprised if there was any evidence that these girls have suffered a detriment in having these men separated from them. The detriment is to the men, who posters are supporting, when their decision to bring a child bride along is likely driven by how much it helps their case. So in removing the requirement to split these couples up, it enforces the message to the men that it's a good idea to bring along a child bride, hence making it more likely it will continue to happen.

Coyoacan · 18/12/2021 14:56

The article I read refers to couples of similar ages.

Separating them and treating cases as individuals might seem harsh, but if you see it as harsh then presumably you see child marriage as ok sometimes. It's not ok. It's not something that's a positive for a young girl

I married at seventeen and it was positive for me. I did not want to extrapolate too much from my anecdotal circumstances, but that is why each case should be treated differently.

CheeseMmmm · 18/12/2021 16:16

A couple from England, married with parental consent both age 17 somehow sought refuge in Norway, would be separated.

She could be Pg, they could have a baby already.

I mean sure not realistic example at all, but that's not the point.

To assume one extreme or the other, do nothing or automatically separate. Is too blunt. Can't see prob with individual assessment. We are talking about individual people's lives, after all.

KimikosNightmare · 18/12/2021 20:24

Or a couple from Scotland married legally with no need for parental consent both age 17 somehow sought refuge in Norway, would be separated.

CheeseMmmm · 18/12/2021 20:32

Thanks -

I have no idea why there so much rejection on thread of individual assessments, blanket approach is right thing to do.

I don't seem to remember anyone having pause given point that would mean separation for UK couples (not at all likely to happen but the point is solid).

The fact that our current laws are out of line with generally agreed global minimum age marriage also hasn't been acknowledged by any pro blanket people.

I really really want to know if any have had second thoughts?

If no response whatever it is. Hmm that's a point/ makes no difference. Whatever.

Then my personal conclusions are not positive. But I don't want to share them at moment cos maybe comments about this to come.

CheeseMmmm · 18/12/2021 20:33

Coyo well quite and thank you for posting :)

CheeseMmmm · 18/12/2021 20:34

Actually just realised I have a friend married 17!

Decades ago just remembered.

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