Denmark's former immigration minister is JAILED for ordering asylum seeking couples to be separated if one was a minor in a bid to stamp out child marriage

[FreeBritnee]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10305175/Denmarks-former-immigration-minister-JAILED-ordering-separation-asylum-seeking-couples.html

So they’re jailing women now for safeguarding children. I suppose we knew it was just a matter of time.

As you've just quoted me, I'm not sure I support having the option of jail.

In this case the Guardian article says she's unlikely to actually spend any time in prison, just to have electronic monitoring, but that doesn't change the principle.

I really don't know what would be an appropriate penalty.

Therese Coffey and (I think it was) David Gauke faced no consequences whatsoever for acting unlawfully at the DWP. Dominic Cummings isn't a minister, but got rewarded with a job in No 10 while being in contempt of Parliament. They all just act with impunity.

I think jail is excessive - I think I would intentionally break the law too if I thought that keeping within the law did not safeguard underage women and girls (though I'm not sure that was her intention)

I wonder how many cases there were and if she had not enacted a blanket ban, how many cases would have actually ever been checked, or would they all just have been allowed through.

@PaleGreenGhost

Regardless of this specific example, this is a really important issue and one I find my leftie mates are hesitant to talk about. I find it quite scary that they are potentially willing to apply completely different values to women from other cultures than they would to their own friends and daughters. I'm a leftie too but have some experience working with refugees. Relationships with abusive power dynamics exist in refugee populations just as they do in western populations. The problem needs reframing as a male one, not a race or nationality one.

If a female refugee is being coercively controlled by an abusive husband, she is extra vulnerable as he can keep her from acquiring sufficient language skills to feel able to be without him. I have seen this happen. I'm sure coercive western men would take advantage of a similar opportunity to further control if they had one.

I can't see how it is OK to have a two tier system of law and child protection in a country.

It's just racism. "Lefties" can be racist too.

And offering a black or brown girl less protection than you would a white girl is just racist. Either we value the lives, health and freedom of girls in this country (or the Danish do in theirs, or the Swedish in theirs) or we don't, and we consider those girls expendable, so their patriarchs continue to vote in the way we want.

Inger Støjberg was charged in the Supreme Court for having 'initiated' and 'maintained' an illegal scheme to separate all asylum couples, at least one of whom was a minor. Without individual assessments and party hearings, which is otherwise a requirement before making such decisions.

Good for her. Why do you need an assessment and a hearing when you've got the dates of birth? Why all the shades of grey?

I wonder how many cases there were and if she had not enacted a blanket ban, how many cases would have actually ever been checked, or would they all just have been allowed through.

This, exactly. I mean, in the UK the age of consent is quite low, at 16. Yet if you report a 40 year old man for having sex with your 14 year old daughter, nothing will happen to him (regardless of your colour, in this case!) So the law is flexible and there are discussions and case conferences and blah blah blah because we don't have the collective spine to say no, sixteen years old is a hard limit, it's the law for a reason, and we're prosecuting this man. Regardless of what a 14 year old thinks, because she is a child and cannot consent, by law.

If you read up on the Sweden child marriage issue, which is very similar, there was plenty of watering down there too. But what if they're close in age, but what if they have kids (how lovely for a seventeen year old to have several kids!) But what if she doesn't look too scared, but what if she'd be thought less of by her community, but what if what if what if.
So good for this politician. She probably made a real difference to at least some of the girls' lives.

Shameful that any politician should be jailed for child safeguarding.

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

Shameful that any politician should be jailed for child safeguarding.

She is being jailed for knowingly breaking the law. She could have ordered a lawful individual assesment of each couple instead.

@FreeBritnee

My understanding is that in Denmark you are not allowed to be gender critical or even discuss gender critical issues in the privacy or your home. It falls under a hate crime and you can be prosecuted for it.

Do you have a source for this claim ?

I know that immigration in Scandinavian countries is a huge issue, politically and with public.
I don't know about Denmark if like that- can check.

Wiki-

'In March 2021, the Danish government has stated that it will revoke the residency permits for Syrian refugees and deport them back to Syria,[85] becoming the first European country and EU member state to initiate the transition as they revoked 94 Syrians of residency permits.[85][86] Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said that the areas of Damascus is safe, and is pursuing the goal of having "zero asylum seekers".[86] Although, they are not forced to leave, they are obliged to be at deportation camps'

There's a lot of context around all this. I don't know know much apart from massive divisions v big prominent area.

Without context just a headline incomplete.

Don't know with this what politics etc involved.

A blanket policy of separating young women and mothers from their husbands in a strange country where they don't speak the language or know anyone is shite. Obviously if a woman's husband is abusive that is another story.

I don’t see how they can be a couple if one is a child. The child is too young to legally consent. It’s only right to separate children from abusers who claim to be in an illegal relationship with them.

Agree that a blanket policy not good.

12 yo and 40yo one thing.
15 etc... Separation? What does that mean in practice?

If separated surely makes massively more difficult to get going in totally different country?

If got kids or as mentioned she pregnant, and no sign unhappy, then... I'd say best not to.

Do they separate if Danish person pregnant at that age?

Inflexible rule means no consideration for situation at all.
And therefore separates some from their support, in it together, close friend, only person they know.
Pregnant? What does that mean for her success at settling down, jobs etc?

What support do they give to eg younger girls who are not happy at all, forced marriage etc, education? Where live?

I mean there's a million questions.

Obviously if a woman's husband is abusive that is another story
It’s abusive because the “woman” is a child.

Bloomberg-

'A Danish politician behind some of Europe’s strictest immigration policies will be jailed after she was found guilty of breaching her duties by illegally separating refugee couples. '

Context is everything.

Wow- individual assessments she denied.

'In 2016, Denmark separated 23 refugee couples upon arrival on Stojeberg’s order which was later deemed unlawful by the parliament’s ombudsman as it failed to acknowledge that couples have the right for individual assessments. '

@Angelton

Obviously if a woman's husband is abusive that is another story It’s abusive because the “woman” is a child.

Exactly. I love how posters are doing exactly what I said above. What if she's 15? What if she was only a little bit raped? What if he's really handy with the kids? What if he can speak to her? Maybe it would be nice for her to stay in her illegal child marriage because reasons?

These men use these girls as a passport into Europe. A "family man" stands a better chance than a single man. He isn't going to help her claim anything, he doesn't speak the language either. There will be social workers and translators for all that. He can't bring in any income (but he can spend it!) And if you think he's going to provide childcare while she learns Danish and gets a part time job I've got a bridge to sell you.

Imagine if your 14 or 15 year old daughter was pregnant with her first or even second child, to a man who is using her to get into Denmark, and when someone separates him from her the world goes crazy because there wasn't an "individual assessment."
Even if every girl separated from her husband in this way was protesting outside the courts, there's no way this judgement should have been made. (And look, the children rescued from child marriages aren't all screaming for their husbands to be returned to them, quelle fucking surprise)

I find it faintly astonishing that all the women - girls, really - saying they hadn’t been coerced into the relationships was given such weight. Because they’re not going to say anything else on arrival - which complicates things even for the “Romeo & Juliet” spouses: being close in age is no guarantee of it being a safe, happy & voluntary relationship. As well as the understandable fear of being in a strange place there’s also a good chance of there being at best a tangle of cultural expectations & nuance to get through; & at worst someone [not] coping with trauma - specifically due to their marriage, I mean, rather than the more general (sounds horribly flippant, but do not mean it to be) trauma experienced as a refugee [& in process of becoming one]. So yes, each case needs considering on its own merits - but in the circumstances, all cases needed addressing.

A relative who worked for the U.K. Asylum Directorate & Department of Immigration had the job, when I was 14/15, of informing the US Armed Forces that their service member who wished to bring his new wife who was of an age of me into the country was not only not permitted to do so but it would constitute an offence if he did. Rather a pity they rushed their wedding with her travelling with him in mind. (And, you know, a pity that her family were willing to sign the paperwork; & that she’d effectively abandon her education; & that the US military didn’t have rules in place so other countries didn’t have to be the ones to tell them no). The Home Office would look at any & all such applications on an individual basis (am trying & failing to remember about rules on eg 12 yo wives entering country are). I wonder what she’d have done if she’d American couples where the wife was 13/14/15 & the husband 18+ seeking to make their home there. Clearly it’s a different sort of application, but would it have been flagged, I wonder?

Anyway, if anyone on the thread’s not familiar with Girls Not Brides they’re campaigning for an end to child marriage; & their site has some useful resources on things like where in the world the 1/5 girls who are getting married before 18 are.

However, in this situation

The politician has introduced some of the harshest laws etc around refugees.

Govt said should be individual assessments. Can't see a problem with that.

Treating all who arrive, whatever their situation, as automatically better apart.

15/18 example. She pregnant maybe.
Always separate full stop? No assessment of any type?

What do they do when Danes are pregnant at 15? I have no idea but relevant.

When it's from a politician who seems to have a certain stance on refugees.
And as outsiders with no info on what would happen re education/ having baby, where live etc.
I think it's a bit knee jerk to say right thing.

Being able to get married 16 here is considered child marriage by many international orgs, the age they say is 18.
Just a general point.

Pp talks about marriage under 18 help stop.

Missed that sorry.
That's legal here. (Parents consent, uncommon, that's not really the point though).

She could have ordered a lawful individual assesment of each couple instead.

Meaning that it's all right for children to be married in some cases?

We have child marriage though.

Under 18 which is the UN etc age to set.

To plenty other countries we have child marriage.

How does that fit with your thoughts?

Yes needs consent parent, no not big numbers.

Our law by allows child marriage.

'Most of the women among the separated couples were aged 15 to 17, while the men ranged in age from 15 to 32. '

Isn't how long they have been married relevant, for example?

Two 17 year olds married 6 months? Which would be legal here.
A 15 yo and 17 to married recently?

Why the strong objection to treating couples as individuals rather than a blanket approach?

What is the problem with that?

Incidentally-

'Considered an immigration hardliner, Ms Stoejberg spearheaded the tightening of asylum and immigration rules.

A 2016 law required newly arrived asylum-seekers to hand over valuables such as jewellery and gold to help pay for their stays in the country.'

And surely what's in place for refugees there is pertinent.

Housing/education/ benefits/ looking after the under 18s etc.

If it's not great then if assessment done well and they older and she pregnant.
In a stage country, no money, more difficult if alone, etc. Then surely it would make things way more difficult than had to be.

A 2016 law required newly arrived asylum-seekers to hand over valuables such as jewellery and gold to help pay for their stays in the country

I'm probably more hardline than the average MNetter on this issue but that seems vindictive.

Yes , the bullion held by The Bank of England has value but individual items of gold and jewellery have to be in seriously high price range before there is meaningful resale value. Most jewellery has sentimental, not real value.

Two 17 year olds married 6 months? Which would be legal here.
A 15 yo and 17 to married recently?

Why the strong objection to treating couples as individuals rather than a blanket approach?

I agree.

Plus I imagine it's all they've got, taken for reason jewellery etc is in the types circs.

Light, wearable, small, can be worn and covered or hidden more easily.