Boy in girls changing rooms

[MissFenella]

DD year 7 has told me there is a boy using their changing rooms for PE. She has been trying to swerve PE the last few weeks and I asked her why.

I am going to pop an email to school pointing out single sex exemptions and the importance of the girls welfare.

Has anyone done similar or have a link to a suitable template etc. Just want to get my facts right without being overly emotive.

TIA

Here you are OP. Safe Schools Alliance has this covered:

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/singlesextoiletsfactsheet.pdf

Well done for standing up for your daughter

Hope it goes well

Yes, there was another thread a few short weeks ago about a boy accessing girls' toilets. The poster was successful in getting the school to reverse their policy.

Sorry on app, don't know how to link.

Search "Boy in a skirt in girl's toilets". Good luck op.

I hope they listen to you. Well done for trying.

Well done OP. Let us know what school say.

Under no circumstance let them get away with this.

Interesting… I had been thinking about starting a thread about exactly the same issue.

My DD (12) has a male classmate who identifies as non-binary but has identified as female and still changes for PE with the girls.

My daughter spends a lot of time worrying that she might accidentally say something that offends the person, pronouns etc.

She feels slightly uneasy about the changing situation but when she asked a friend if they were ok with it, she was quickly slapped down - if the person feels like a girl then she is a girl, don’t be horrible etc. she worries that the other child may be jealous of her female body and feels guilty for changing near them as if she’s flaunting that she is a girl when it’s what the other child really wants.

This child has also announced in sex education lessons that puberty is much harder for non binary people (which I’m sure in many ways it is, but this person will never have to deal with period pain, flooding or risk of pregnancy) so it makes asking about and sharing female experience awkward.

I have tried to chat to her about focussing on the universal ‘person’ things that they have in common and not let the trans stuff get in the way of relating as friends, that being in with the girls is more likely to be validating rather than triggering for them otherwise I presume they would prefer to change separately. But that she is also entitled to her own comfort and boundaries, it is not only about this person’s needs. I wouldn’t want to be “that parent” or make life difficult for her by saying anything, but she feels very uneasy. It’s very hard.

You see ‘Be kind” everywhere as a mantra.
It is so wrong for girls who have always been expected to be kind at great cost to themselves sometimes, they don’t need any more pressure.

I am not sure how that boy is non-binary yet so definitely a girl they need to change with the girls.

Perhaps a philosopher on here would be able to say if that is in any way logical?

To me it seems ridiculous, confused, and selfish teenage thinking.

I wouldn’t want to be “that parent” or make life difficult for her by saying anything, but she feels very uneasy. It’s very hard.

Wtf? Be that parent. Who else is going to keep your child safe? When she announces aged 14 that the 50 year old lorry driver she's been sexting loves her will you be that parent or worry about making her feel uneasy. FFS YOURE THE PARENT - KEEP HER SAFE. Governors, DfE, local MP - the works. Your school allows your daughter to strip off in front of boys.

Outdoorbeanbags
Not criticising at all but I'd be concerned that your daughter is being unwillingly coerced into some very passive ideas about her right to boundaries and privacy.
As a parent I'd be challenging the school about why girls are getting the message that they have no rights to privacy? (Even if I didn't tell her that I was doing it). It's not the law, it's a demand made by groups run by primarily male born adults. In the light of the disgraceful statistics about sexual harassment of girls in and out of schools, the idea that wedging adolescent boys into changing rooms, showers and toilets with girls is a good thing, is completely tone deaf.

Young girls are being serially gaslit in schools and it's now up to their parents to insist that their rights are not trampled over in favour of sad boys.

You are so right, I know. I’m really worried that they may single her out as being the only one with a problem and be forced to change on her own (I have heard of this happening) so all of her friends will turn on her. She would not forgive me for that, secondary school has not been an easy transition and she is desperate to fit in.

Girls should not be put in this position.
And then told they are wrong to feel uncomfortable?
It's ridiculous.

@Outdoorbeanbags

You are so right, I know. I’m really worried that they may single her out as being the only one with a problem and be forced to change on her own (I have heard of this happening) so all of her friends will turn on her. She would not forgive me for that, secondary school has not been an easy transition and she is desperate to fit in.

Ffs listen to yourself. She doesn't have to know. But about a billion red safeguarding flags are being waved here. I'll repeat governors, MP, DfE. I'll add LADO. Monday. Your job is keep your child safe and you are failing.

That's why I suggest you do it on the quiet Outdoorbeanbags without her knowing? Too many schools are failing to protect girls because they're in hock to the toxic lobby groups.

I despair at the systematic bullying of girls that's going on to make them toe the line and remove their boundaries. Safe Schools Alliance are a great source of support for parents and I suspect can advise about how to contact a school discretely.

How have we got to a state where girls have to accept being forced to undress in front of random boys in schools.

Do you know any of the mothers of your dd’s friends? If so, what do they think. Could you ask them individually so they won’t self-censor their answer to fit in? If any agreed with you you could contact the school together.

Thank you for your advice. My daughter has only just disclosed about the changing thing and how it makes her feel tonight. I will look at the safe schools stuff.

I do know 1 or 2 mums

Outdoorbeanbags - I could cry for your poor DD - feeling guilt about her own absolutely valid feelings and her own body.

If you are worried about singling her out, you don't have to say she is uncomfortable with the situation, but that you are. She's a child - even if she said she wasn't uncomfortable you should still be, because what is happening is wrong.

It’s weird. W3 teach girls to have boundaries yet soon as the magic words are spoken boundaries fly out the window.

A girl not wanting to take part in sports because a boy is in her changing room

Another girl ashamed of her body in case a boy is upset by it

Wtaf is going on in our schools

Gaslighting extreme

@Outdoorbeanbags
Are you focusing on the other child with your daughter?

Be blunt with your child, she comes first, second and all the way to last when it comes to her right to her feelings and her right to privacy.

One of the hardest lessons as an teen is not to go along with group think.
Group bullying stems from one ringleader being able to manipulate others into joining in. You would be disappointed if she joined in because she was "just following the crowd".

Drinking, drugs, sex unhealthy relationships etc all are areas where your child needs to make decisions and make them for her benefit not to be liked or to fall in line with what everyone else is doing.

The other child is positioning to be top of the social pile. Confident enough to claim special status during talks about puberty. How will the school deal with sexual reproduction lessons will that be different too?

The schools safeguarding policy should not have some males or females allowed into the spaces reserved for the opposite sex.

@MissFenella
I am going to presume that your school is an all Christian population? Because allowing mixed sex changing rooms and toilets is one of those subtle ways that exclude children from races and religions which would rely on the single sex exemption.

It's blunt insanity.

Girls, the boys will be changing in separate rooms because privacy, dignity, this is important for all of you, we believe in this wholly and have policies about it, and will never permit for any of you to be uncomfortable or at risk by mixing the groups after a certain age point.

Oh, this boy now prefers to identify as a girl?

Girls stop being so unkind and wanting privacy and dignity and safety! Your objective experience of changing with a boy must be completely dictated by this boy's subjective sense of self, and your priority is not you but him. Your boundaries must always be predicated on whether or not a male person agrees with them, and if they are sad and upset by your having needs or feelings that you'd like the male person to respect in return then you are being a Very Bad Person.

It's male supremacism, there is no other term. It is that plain.

No. The male child should absolutely be provided with somewhere separate from the other male children if preferred as no one should have to change without feeling dignity, privacy, safety, and that applies to equally to females not just to males.

The female children's feelings and equality is not some kind of ritual sacrifice that adults must make to a trans child to demonstrate sufficient care for them. No child in this situation matters more or less than another one does.

I always think what school is putting a single girl female into a changing room with teen -boys males???

Has anyone ever seen this happen in the UK?

Or is it that the schools reputation risk from sexual harassment etc has a sex bias and is assessed differently?

No. The male child should absolutely be provided with somewhere separate from the other male children if preferred as no one should have to change without feeling dignity, privacy, safety, and that applies to equally to females not just to males.

Completely agree.

These girls are being brought up now not to value themselves or their boundaries. Their feelings must always be subjugated to males. The feelings of the male is paramount. This must have some awful insidious effect on their self esteem.

When these girls are in relationships will they consequently willingly accept being choked during sex? When they’re in the workplace will they always defer to their male colleagues during meetings?
In extracurricular activities will they accept without demurring poor safeguarding practices?
In sporting endeavours will they take it as given that their achievements can be removed on a whim by a person of the opposite sex identifying as a girl/ woman?

op I hope you have some success standing up for your daughter.

These girls are being brought up now not to value themselves or their boundaries. Their feelings must always be subjugated to males. The feelings of the male is paramount. This must have some awful insidious effect on their self esteem

It's incredibly serious isn't it? The very people who girls should trust to help reinforce boundaries about privacy and safety (schools, the NHS, lawyers, the Guides) all actively coercing girls to accept male bodies next to them when undressing, showering, even sleeping. Let alone the pretence that there are no differences between the sexes in terms of sport.