How do you challenge a public body who declares that EVERYONE has a gender identity, as a fact?

[FindTheTruth]

Complain? Campaign? Does more guidance need to come from the EHRC?

If a public body says that all people have a gender identity (the foundation of the philosophical/religious/political belief of gender ideology) it has huge implications. They run public services paid for with our taxes and must be neutral and fact based.

This is from the NHS (what India W used as 'evidence' on Radio 4 in discussion with ED and Prof. Kathleen Stock)
"An individual’s awareness of gender identity, and the emergence of a range of gender-typical behaviours, is usually established by the age of two to three years"

So the NHS is saying that everyone has a gender identity

www.dpt.nhs.uk/our-services/gender-identity/your-questions-answered/when-does-someone-become-aware-of-a-gender-identity

When an organisation is captured.

So the NHS is saying that everyone has a gender identity

No. They are using the term in its original, scientific sense. They don't mean GI in the sense that Genderists mean it; they mean awareness of sex differences and picking up on gender stereotypes as a stage of child development.

The thing is that gender identity can be internal or externally forced

And most women even those who think gender is a pile of bollocks will admit to conforming to a large element of gender expectations , from how you dress to the need to please which we often don't lose even after menopause

Ie you express conformance to it is seen as evidence of it

That is shockingly bad. Unevidenced dogma parading as fact.

If yesterday's thread about the science museum is anything to go by, a handful of complaints you be enough to get them to backtrack*

*that only works for pro gender theory changes, but it would be good if it worked the other way, too

Well, I could write to say I expect to see links to the evidence of that claim. Perhaps include my MP.
Anyone know how you write to the NHS?

What is bad is that people are deliberately misinterpreting and representing something to try abs change society

The problem is the NHS is being all delicate and using gender when it meant sex. Which enables proponents of gender identity to misuse this. So actually this should be challenged.

The word 'usually' is their get-out there.

Point out the ambiguity and how that is being used as justification for snd to promote an ideology that isn't widely accepted

@YourenutsmiLord

Well, I could write to say I expect to see links to the evidence of that claim. Perhaps include my MP. Anyone know how you write to the NHS?

I would also say, write to your MP, ask him or her to pass on your letter to Javid, and also write to permanent undersecretary Sir Chris Wormald and Stephen Powis is the National Medical Director, ...Jason Copping, Caroline Dinenage...basically anyone you can think of. It tedious to have to follow up on numerous letters repeatedly but with a scattergun approach something will stick somewhere. I'd then send a summary of who you have written to, to Baroness Nicholson and Sir Robert Winston.

Here are the guidelines for website content, you've got them on accuracy as the first point.

https://www.nhs.uk/our-policies/content-policy/

I would question why the NHS are pushing for gender stereotypical behaviour, when the rest of us are trying to break down gender stereotypes.
As a bloke, I can see that gender stereotyping is probably the weapon which has been used the most to hold back girl's and women's opportunities the most.

Yes this has been troubling me a lot recently. I will get writing.

@donquixotedelamancha

So the NHS is saying that everyone has a gender identity

No. They are using the term in its original, scientific sense. They don't mean GI in the sense that Genderists mean it; they mean awareness of sex differences and picking up on gender stereotypes as a stage of child development.

I agree with this. This is about the age that children start to become aware that there are boys and girls and start to understand that they are a boy or a girl.

Its also when they start to pick up sexist ideas. Both my boys went through a phase of speaking very negatively about girls and how they did not like girls, in the early years. Its really disturbing how those ideas are out there in our culture that such young children start absorb and express them.

This is really irritating.

This is good, established psychological theory about normal development of sex/gender awareness during childhood, but it's being misrepresented to imply that everyone has an inherent gender identity.

Katie Alcock has written about development of sex constancy understanding in children here:
medium.com/@katieja?p=3421f4f165f1

In short:

• children become aware that people can be boys or girls around 2 years old. So they know "I'm a boy, mum is a lady, dad is a man" but they don't really know what that means at first.
• between ages 3-5 children assign people as boy or girl based on external features like clothes, hair length, accessories. So a child will say a doll is a boy if it wears "boy" clothes, but will say the same doll is a girl if it is wearing a dress.
• by age 6 - 7, children develop an understanding that sex is a fixed attribute that does not change because of external features. So you can be a boy wearing a dress and that's fine.

There's a nice video demonstration of this change in development here:

This is one of the reasons why Diane Ehrensaft's theories about gender communications are such guff - because at 18months or whatever a child has no understanding of their sex/gender, they just don't like wearing hair clips (or whatever).

InvisibleDragon
I wasn’t able to find the page on your link
“medium.com”
But I was just about to send this one with Katie Alcock’s article with videos from Transgender trend. I agree with everything you said, and the OP.

www.transgendertrend.com/young-children/

"and the emergence of a range of gender-typical behaviours"

Replace that with sex-based and it makes more sense and is also easily challenged as the NHS are then saying that there are stereotypes based on sex (true) and they can be damaging to children (true).

In the current climate it's perfectly reasonable to challenge the use of the word 'gender' in this context and strongly suggest it be changed for accuracy.

Sorry, my link to Katie Alcock ate itself!

This should work better:
medium.com/@katieja/young-children-reality-sex-and-gender-3421f4f165f1

“OhHolyJesus

"and the emergence of a range of gender-typical behaviours"

Replace that with sex-based and it makes more sense and is also easily challenged as the NHS are then saying that there are stereotypes based on sex (true) and they can be damaging to children (true).

In the current climate it's perfectly reasonable to challenge the use of the word 'gender' in this context and strongly suggest it be changed for accuracy.“

Small children may say they are a boy or a girl, but they do not truly understand enough to understand what their sex is. They are simply using words of identification based on the stereotypes they see around.

So the NHS website needs to start by defining sex and defining gender.

Then the NHS website should explain that small children do not understand their sex, that knowledge of this only emerges from an older age 6 - 9 (?).

Small children may well however say they are a boy or a girl based on what they have been told, and based on how the boys, girls, men and woman around them normally look and behave.

As for sex based or gender based behaviour in children if 2-6 does anyone know the truth of this? I am asking as a genuine question. Has anyone entangled what is inborn and what copied or taught?

People say for example that little boys who seem more effeminate - liking dolls say - are a bit more likely to grow up to be gay. Does that mean their effeminacy was inborn? (Some parents apparently want to trans these children in some cultures.) Is it true that little boys are more likely to like cars and trains etc, and have good spatial awareness? If so is that inborn?

The whole page here assumes that everyone has a gender identity… and this is supposed to be proper evidence based NHS health advice. It’s appallingly politicised:

www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

The NHS means sex.

Sex and gender have always bee used interchangeably by scientists.

So many people use gender as a polite word for sex. There are also many sentences in which using sex correctly sounds rude and Brits are circumlocutory prudes, so they say gender.

FFS.

What does the NHS mean though?

Because if they do mean sex ( but are using gender as a euphemism), 2-3 year olds do not really understand what sex they are.

As a bloke, I can see that gender stereotyping is probably the weapon which has been used the most to hold back girl's and women's opportunities the most.

Hmm, not sure whether it's that or the fact that women do the whole brunt of pregnancy followed by the main brunt of early childcare which segues into delays to career and then the majority of later childcare.

Plus, we're physically smaller and less muscular.

We last longer, though.

Just seen on twitter "You can't force someone to believe something. You can only force them to pretend they do"

Just wanted to say thank you for this thread OP, and indeed all of your threads and posts. I find them bang on the money. I will get writing to nhs.