Penn’s Lia Thomas breaks 200/500 Free records in meet with Princeton, Cornell

[Helleofabore]

USA women’s freestyle swimming records were broken this weekend!!!

To all those who keep using the ‘scale’ argument to justify inclusion of males in female sport, tell us again how it takes more than one male competing in female sport to significantly and negatively impact that sport?

I am very happy to hear your well thought out and evidenced reasoning.

swimswam.com/penns-lia-thomas-breaks-200-500-free-records-in-meet-with-princeton-cornell/

Penn’s Lia Thomas blasted the number one 200 free time and the second-fastest 500 free time in the nation on Saturday, breaking Penn program records in both events. She swept the 100-200-500 free individual events and contributed to the first-place 400 free relay in a tri-meet against Princeton and Cornell in her home pool.

Sounds wonderful until you realise that for their first three years competing in the competition, they competed as a male.

twitter.com/coachblade/status/1465517693386121217?s=21

Coach Linda Blade’s tweet says :

Well of course women’s records are being smashed!

Lia competed as male for first three years in #NCAA.

This is not right!

We need to return to #SexBasedSports!

#SexNotGender to preserve fairness for female athletes.

Interesting that the Penn U response was for the affected women to contact the LGBT and/or mental health support services.

The Phelps fallacy is also used by Helen Joyce, so it has had wide currency in discussing this. Her chapter is a very good summing up of the issues at that point so I don’t think it’s necessarily a gotcha for Sean Ingle rather him presumably using recent writing on the subject

I wonder how much of University sport in being impacted by gender ideology? As universities are hotbeds for GI, logically we should be seeing more Lia's coming through the system.

Bless Ross Tucker. Like the rest of us, he really wishes he didn’t have to keep talking about these issues but then something else happens and he does another podcast. Here’s his take on Lia.

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-real-science-of-sport-podcast/id1461719225?i=1000545175817

@Ekofisk

Interesting that the Penn U response was for the affected women to contact the LGBT and/or mental health support services.

Yes. I read that and thought… either one person on the team needs mental health services, or almost everybody on the team needs them. Which is more likely?

And sorry, Helleofabore, my I asked a question, but wasn’t expecting an answer it wasn’t quite rhetorical, but more a passing thought. I could, of course, look it up myself if I was interested enough to do so. Just 67% seemed low.

Maybe the entire women’s swim team and all their supporters should present themselves at the university mental health services at the same time. And invite the media along…

And sorry, Helleofabore, my I asked a question, but wasn’t expecting an answer it wasn’t quite rhetorical, but more a passing thought. I could, of course, look it up myself if I was interested enough to do so. Just 67% seemed low.

no. I agree, it does seem low. I did raise it as an issue myself and said I would try to find out. But the website for binary org hasn't got further details. I also know that many of my friends and family in Australia have NO idea about this so.... it could be lack of information or a poorly posed question.

There is absolutely no history or resonance about an entire class of women disadvantaged by biology being told they
have mental health problems, of course.

But I know that Lia would tell me they'd also been disadvantaged by their biology and I'd be discriminating against them by suggesting psychological support to accept their male body was needed.

I found Lia's quote about still being able to compete despite being trans really quite nasty.

mobile.twitter.com/mara_yamauchi/status/1471382412521263104

Mara Yamauchi
@mara_yamauchi
👇Female swimmers told to access mental health services to ‘navigate’ Lia’s success.

Penn says it is committed to being a ‘welcoming & inclusive environment’ for all students.

Except the female swimmers, that is.

You really can’t make this stuff up.
🤬🤷‍♀️

Mental health services required to get them to accept they will never win again and their sport has been trashed by an out and out cheat.

Swimming’s international federation Fina is to appoint a panel of experts to come up with a new policy on transgender women competing in female events after being put on the spot by the emergence of the American college swimmer Lia Thomas.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lia-thomas-moves-transgender-rules-to-top-of-swimmings-agenda-wd3mvgm0l

Good news. There is a proven format to look at this issue as modelled by World Rugby. I hope FINA keep the process open and transparent (unlike the IOC)

That is interesting thanks Betty.

It is sad that I am pessimistic about this. Yes World Rugby did a great job. But they also have the contact issue.

I feel swimming will be like cycling and will go for inclusion. What those federations then don’t look at is the extra burden that these females put on their bodies to then push to ever more extreme performance. It is all about how to make these males feel better though.

World Rugby released their superbly constructed recommendations after a open and scientific process, only for individual unions to reject them. So your pessimism is well founded.

Did anyone see the film on twitter?

Thomas finishes first and just waits. There is zero noise from the audience/crowd, this lasts for 38 seconds until Anna Kalandadze touches the wall and then there is applause.

38 seconds????

Yes, it feels like forever. A couple of times it looks like someone is about to come in second but they turn out to be people who are over a lap behind.

There can never be a fair way of having "a new policy on transgender women competing in female events".

The only fair way is that male people who are transgender (or non-binary or whatever) compete in male events only. Full stop.

The whole thing makes me feel sick. It's so blatantly wrong. Everyone knows it's wrong, so why the fuck are sporting bodies allowing it.

@sashh

Did anyone see the film on twitter?

Thomas finishes first and just waits. There is zero noise from the audience/crowd, this lasts for 38 seconds until Anna Kalandadze touches the wall and then there is applause.

Good!

There was a comment on one of the articles I read along the lines of ‘as soon as they have to admit Lia is a man in the pool, then they will have admit they are a man outside of it too’. The whole TWAW falls apart.

@Justme56

There was a comment on one of the articles I read along the lines of ‘as soon as they have to admit Lia is a man in the pool, then they will have admit they are a man outside of it too’. The whole TWAW falls apart.

The comment reported in this post brought me up short. It’s why the activists are fighting any recognition of women’s rights and the need for balance so hard. One crack and the whole edifice crumbles.

One crack and the whole edifice crumbles.

Indeed Betty. When there is a lack of factual foundations, it cannot do anything but collapse. It is after all why people trying to convince us it is righteous and just fail every single time. They can never provide the scientific basis they all declare is there. They insist, they berate and name call, but cannot produce the evidence for their claims. it is all built on smoke.

I sometimes feel some sympathy for posters who try the emotionally manipulative tactic. But only because they must understand deep down it is insupportable in the end. And the more they push, the quicker it is going to collapse.

But yes. Admitting that Thomas is male and has not lost their advantages means admitting that Thomas can never be a woman despite the mantra.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10342703/Longtime-USA-Swimming-official-QUITS-protest-Penn-transgender-student-Lia-Thomas.html

Swimming official (with 30 years experience) quits over the end of single sex sports.