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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Green Party - again

55 replies

Rightsraptor · 29/11/2021 22:33

I joined the GP in order to vote in their internal elections and try to change their direction in matters related to gender ideology.

This evening I got an email from Green Party Women calling for candidates and registering to vote and guess what it says?

"If you a (sic) member of the Green Party of England and Wales, and also identify as a woman or gender variant, you are eligible to vote in our upcoming 2021 Green Party Women internal committee elections. To register to vote, please sign up here confirming that you identify as a woman or gender variant and are therefore an eligible voter!" (why the redundant ! at the end?)

Next:
"Please note:
We recognise some women feel they are women rather than identify as women. This is how the wording is set out in the constitution, and we are obliged to follow it. We intend no offence by it."

I do not feel I am a woman, I do not identify as a woman, I AM A WOMAN. It is a state, not a feeling. I should not have opened that email before bedtime. I am not offended, I am raging.

I can't vote anyway because I will not tick any box saying I identify as a woman (or 'gender variant' FFS).

Tomorrow they get my resignation from their poxy party. Fuck them.

OP posts:
Bellendejour · 29/11/2021 22:40

Please explain why when you do it Star

MonsignorMirth · 29/11/2021 22:55

So is woman a gender, in which case non-binary or agender females aren't - (are they covered by "gender variant"?)
Or is woman a sex?

I actually think they're trying to reach out with this message. It doesn't help any of the other nonsense but I think they're trying to say the 'right' thing to appeal to women-as-sex and women-as-gender people.

What would actually clarify things is if they actually define 'woman' and 'gender variant'. But we know they can't.

Vermontfoliage · 29/11/2021 23:03

What is gender variant? I identify as pajamagender (lgbta.fandom.com/wiki/Pajamagender), am I gender variant?

SpringCrocus · 29/11/2021 23:10

Please don't leave! Stay and fight from within.

Original poster
Rightsraptor · 29/11/2021 23:11

Well, they are tying themselves up in stupid knots and it's their own fault. I can't be arsed to try to work out what they mean, all I know is I do not 'identify as' or 'feel' I am a woman.

Just emailed my resignation. I explained my thoughts.

Probably won't get any response.

OP posts:
LonginesPrime · 30/11/2021 01:53

I do understand your frustration, OP.

That said, it sounds like you foresaw this exact predicament;

I joined the GP in order to vote in their internal elections and try to change their direction in matters related to gender ideology.

Then:

I can't vote anyway because I will not tick any box saying I identify as a woman (or 'gender variant' FFS).

So isn't this precisely why you joined in the first place? What did you expect?

CheeseMmmm · 30/11/2021 02:29

looked up gender variant, not on stonewall.

Wiki says

'Gender variance, or gender nonconformity, is behavior or gender expression by an individual that does not match masculine or feminine gender norms. A gender-nonconforming person may be variant in their gender identity, being transgender or non-binary, or they may be cisgender. '

CheeseMmmm · 30/11/2021 02:35

So Anyone who identifies as a woman or gender variant includes-

  • any male with any trans identity
  • any female with any trans identity
  • anyone who is GNC? Probably only if have a trans identity as well

Does not include-

  • Anyone female but without a trans identity of woman
  • Anyone who does not have a strongly felt internal sense of gender
  • Anyone who does not accept that gender > sex
  • Anyone with no interest in any of it

I'd ask them to define gender variant as it's important to be clear with such important things.

CheeseMmmm · 30/11/2021 02:37

Their rules then specifically exclude anyone female who thinks sex is important.

Very clever.

Original poster
Rightsraptor · 30/11/2021 05:56

No I did not foresee that they would be so very specific about who they would accept as a woman. When I joined I was attempting to keep the Aimee Challenors of this world out of the party, I didn't know that I would have to navigate a set of complex definitions and then slap a label on myself.

More fool me.

OP posts:
WarriorN · 30/11/2021 06:33

I understand your decision, unfortunately the women who know what women are are gagged from wording this differently.

They're also desperately trying to make it easier for any women who are up to their necks in busy home lives but definitely do know what a woman is, to be on the team, as it's the young single blue hair lot mostly dominating this crap.

So if anyone else fancies staying and stepping up that would be grand!

NecessaryScene · 30/11/2021 07:33

If a bunch of males originally managed to join by fraudulently claiming they were women to change the rules, then it seems only fair that you join by fraudulently claiming you identify as a woman to change them back.

What's the downside to making a false declaration here? You think they're going to try to chuck you out of the party for falsely claiming you identify as a woman? It would be entertaining to see them try.

KittenKong · 30/11/2021 07:53

Gender variant? Are these people a bunch of over-excited 14 year olds?

Schoolchoicesucks · 30/11/2021 08:19

Woman or gender variant?

Is this the terminology now?
Assuming gender variant means non-binary or gender non-conforming? What a horrible term.

Schoolchoicesucks · 30/11/2021 08:22

It sounds like something from x-men.

BreatheAndFocus · 30/11/2021 08:25

The Green Party was the only political party I’ve ever felt happy enough to join - but then AC happened and all this utter crap about gender ideology, and I left.

I personally don’t think you can fight from within. We have to hope a new shiny unicorn party appears and attracts all the GI adherents and the Greens can return to caring about our environment not erasing women and homosexuality.

You have my sympathy.

Fenlandia · 30/11/2021 16:45

"I identify as a gender variant" said no sane person, ever

Livelifeinthebuslane · 30/11/2021 18:44

Another one saying please stay, even if just to try to vote in a committee of actual women! The committee this year has done nothing, it would be good to get back women who are going to do something - including trying to change the constitution.

BraveBananaBadge · 30/11/2021 19:13

"We intend no offence by it"??!

Why end on such an apologetic note? Does that mean they know it's a load of old bollocks?

Absolute clowns.

Jeeeez · 30/11/2021 19:19

Yes - we need to vote decent women who understand biology onto the committee and get it working again and change the constitution.

Leaving doesn't help!

NecessaryScene · 30/11/2021 19:23

Why end on such an apologetic note? Does that mean they know it's a load of old bollocks?

Yes, they're trying to make sure people who know it's bollocks sign up so they can fight to get it changed. The people writing the mail are not in control of the wording, as she says.

Original poster
Rightsraptor · 30/11/2021 19:29

The steam is no longer coming from my ears, I've calmed down a bit. I may possibly stay but wouldn't be able in good conscience to tick the boxes presented to me. No idea what to do.

OP posts:
NecessaryScene · 30/11/2021 19:38

Lie on the form. Stop being such a goody-two-shoes :)

WarriorN · 30/11/2021 20:44

@Jeeeez

Yes - we need to vote decent women who understand biology onto the committee and get it working again and change the constitution.

Leaving doesn't help!

I'm ready to vote them in!

I'd step up but too much on right now. Possibly next year.

LonginesPrime · 30/11/2021 23:04

I may possibly stay but wouldn't be able in good conscience to tick the boxes presented to me. No idea what to do.

Well, there's no point in complaining as they have explained they are obliged to follow their existing constitution in election procedures. Given that they are here now with this constitution, their position on this election is perfectly reasonable from a governance perspective. So there is zero scope to change this from the outside.

Setting aside this specific election for the moment and looking at how you could effect change on the constitution:

  1. The constitution sets out who can stand and who can vote.

  2. Only members can vote.

  3. The only way to have a say in changing the constitution is to vote as a member.

  4. Voting on changing the constitution must be based on the voting rules of the constitution as it is currently worded.

So logically, I think you either have to accept that you need to meet them where they are (as opposed to where you would like them to be) in order to move things in the direction you want, or walk away.

The only way to have a say on the wording of the constitution is to follow their rules to grab yourself a seat at the table and then start objecting to the language once you're safely inside.

From what they've said about the language (despite their slip up on "feeling"), it sounds like you'll be in good company and you definitely won't be the only person on the inside who feels the way you do. You might be just the person they're waiting for to gain enough momentum to do something - but you'll never know unless you get in there and see.

I would take ticking the silly wording as the cost of getting in there, then you can get the lay of the land from the inside before deciding whether the fight is worth it or whether you think it will make your head explode in the long run.

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