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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Trans children in Sweden - serious side effect, cover ups by hospital

102 replies

Doubletoilandtrouble · 25/11/2021 10:06

This is in Swedish only for now. A trans child, Leo was treated for puberty blockers for 4 years. Leo ended up with osteoporosis (significantly below any normal bone density interval), fractures in the back, constant pain and worse mental state.

The journalist also found an additional 12 cases in Stockholm only where children had serious side effects (bone fractures, deep regret from voice changes, injuries, deteriorating mental health and significant weight gains). Leo’s case was not reported and not one of these.

Leo’s parents were not informed of the risk and the doctor that warned the parents about the side effects was reported to the management and silenced (words like incitement was used).

The psychiatric staff initially blamed everything on the hormone team. The head of the department with the hormones claimed in the interview to never have seen the reports from the psychiatric team.

Investigation only seem to have started after the journalist made the program and it wasn’t possible to cover up any more.

And this was Astrid Lindgren’s children’s hospital, one of the hospitals that at least stopped with this treatment. Other hospitals are happily going and claims that the treatment side effects doesn’t worry them.

The program finishes with that nobody know the number of children with serious side effects (some seem to be covered up). Some other Swedish hospitals keep going.

And there is an interview with two transwomen who think that it is horrid that people are using “think of the children”, that is just an argument to deprive trans people of care. They think that the big problem is transphobia. These two transwomen also spoke at the medical conference and told the doctors about how they needed to shift the focus from potential harm to children to fighting transphobia.

I feel sick. I hope this will come out with subtitles soon.

OP posts:
purplesequins · 28/11/2021 07:22

will there be a folliw up to the tv show that many children have watched on the beeps?
that would be very powerful.

Doubletoilandtrouble · 28/11/2021 07:52

Apparently, in Sweden, an incident report needs to be filed whenever there is a deviation from “normal” routine. The Swedish name directly translated is “deviation report” rather than “incident report”.

They need to be systematic managed to identify negative incidents around patient care but also in administration, care environment etc.

My reading is that a known side effect may not need to be reported (but maybe someone who knows will come along). Given the inadequate knowledge around side effects of these treatments I cannot for my life understand why a report wasn’t filed. This is probably why the doctors denied all knowledge about the case.

It did scare me that the doctor who reported the concerns to the family (first time they learned about the potential for damage) had a report filed against him. Apparently, it was “inciting” and upset the family [ I assume to learn about the potential side effects? ]. This doctor didn’t want to participate in the documentary.

OP posts:
purplesequins · 28/11/2021 07:59

it's not only in sweden. it's a eu paediatric medicines regulation that stipulates that off lable use needs to be reported to the yellow card scheme equivalents.

in theory that would be the case for you gave your child a paracetamol tablet if you are out of the child liquid.

StellaAndCrow · 30/11/2021 16:07


I have worked with young people with severe learning disabilities for nearly 40 years. Over the years there have been several attempts from families to have puberty blockers prescribed for these guys. The fear of pregnancy, single dad's not wanting to take charge of periods, aggressive lads with no self control, fear of parents that they would no longer be able to keep young people at home if they became unable to lift them etc. It's easy to see why families might ask for them tbh. BUT on no occasion were they ever prescribed. Deemed not in the best interest of the child, fear of KNOWN side effects and every child having the right to adulthood. Case meetings galore full of every professional under the sun and never any support for this. So why are these drugs good enough for 'trans' kids, but not for learning disabled kids. It is not in the 'trans' kids best interests and is a bloody mess.

I just wanted to highlight this excellent post. Yes, serious treatments that in any other group of patients would have far more safeguards and considered thought seem to be given so readily in this particular group of children. And we get posts deleted for speaking up about it.
LobsterNapkin · 30/11/2021 17:48

Watching the people they interviewed was interesting. The trans activists just seemed completely unable to even comprehend the issues. Like they were caught up entirely in their own experience. Some of the doctors also seemed clueless. One of them looked scared out of his mind. One of them was clearly a slime-ball. A few of them seemed to see the problem and to have serious reservations of their own.

But it really struck me that there was one underlying issue that was hampering things. Not the lack of communication, but this idea that that what they are doing is providing treatment for trans kids. That these kids are in some way actually a different kind of person who requires a treatment to make their body function appropriately, to look and feel like the self-image they claim to have. There is no one considering, maybe what is going on here is something else entirely.

Even the journalists often don't seem to question that narrative or language.

ChattyLion · 13/12/2021 22:39

Bumping this really important thread for anyone whose not seen this yet.

BreadInCaptivity · 13/12/2021 23:46


Bumping this really important thread for anyone whose not seen this yet.

Agreed it's worth bumping.

It's a hard watch but it highlights so very many of the concerns we've been talking about here for over a decade now.

It makes me so angry that as a person with no medical training I seem so much more aware of the issues and side effects/risks of puberty blockers and cross sex hormones than people who are embroiled in these treatments.

The potential issues of permanently blocking puberty (which is what happens when children move from PB's to CSH's) is not understood.

What we do know is the puberty has a significant impact wrt both physical and neurological development.

Ergo it's not hard to conclude that fucking around with a the endocrinology of a pre-pubescent child is likely to have consequences.

What happened to first do no harm?
oldwomanwhoruns · 14/12/2021 08:24

It all seems so very similar to the trajectory of the health of that poor kid in the States. Seems to have the same bone, joint and obesity issues.
Exculansic has just issued a new video about this child. (don't know if I would be permitted to link)

EMotion · 14/12/2021 10:31

@oldwomanwhoruns - I just went to look, and it seems Exculansic has been suspended on twatter…..

oldwomanwhoruns · 14/12/2021 10:41

Emotion I was meaning her YouTube, the latest on Waking Nightmare.

EMotion · 14/12/2021 10:48

Ok, thanks for that!

Enough4me · 14/12/2021 10:57

The irreversible damage isn't visible to many people and can be ignored.

I wonder, do many of the general public realise that although this doesn't impact on them directly now, it is spreading and if not their DC, their GDC are going to be in a position where their school education tells them they can change sex & that the drugs & surgery are normal?

FlyingOink · 14/12/2021 12:04

I've finally got around to watching this and I think that regardless of the specific treatment, it shows a real breakdown in the medical system. There's a complete lack of accountability.
It doesn't need to be blockers, it could be any treatment that requires a multidisciplinary approach.
Ultimately who is responsible for ensuring the treatment is safe and effective? Who is responsible for any harm caused?
The same arguments were made by the Tavistock. Psychology blamed endocrinology and vice versa.

The senior managers and senior clinicians interviewed in the Swedish programme linked above get pretty shirty when they are pinned down. I'd be surprised if they haven't all looked at the possibility of being blamed, and are relying on plausible deniability and buck-passing.

A stunted fifteen year old with a crumbling spine and poor mental health is not a success story. An obvious case where reports were not submitted and the whistleblower was disciplined or reported (not clear what happened) is a scandal, and that the journalists could find another dozen similar cases is absolutely shocking.

It's a very even handed report; lots of time is spent explaining how important this treatment is (according to interviewees). The programme talks specifically about Leo in more depth just after halfway in. Worth watching.

WarriorN · 14/12/2021 12:46

Sorry if I've completely missed something but is there a way to watch with English subtitles l?

WarriorN · 14/12/2021 12:48

[quote rogdmum]Link to view with English subtitles is here:[/quote]

Sorry now found it!


oldwomanwhoruns · 14/12/2021 13:51

I've just finished watching.

As FlyingOink says, it's buck passing JUST like at the Tavistock. Nasty side effects being ignored - liver damage, bone density, other stuff, didn't catch it all.

Everyone should watch this.

They say that treatment is based on old studies, which don't reflect the current patient profile... presumably they mean that the old studies were done on middle-aged men, not female children.

The medicos interviewed (from their gender service) are gobsmackingly complacent, uncaring and unscientific. How can they describe the damage done to these children as a communications issue?? Are they hoping that retirement will come before the sh*t hits the proverbial?

Melroses · 14/12/2021 14:17

and I think that regardless of the specific treatment, it shows a real breakdown in the medical system. There's a complete lack of accountability.

I think this is what I have found hardest to understand.

I have been on the pill/hrt for most of my life and there have been continuous scares and studies on cancer, strokes, heart attacks etc in that time. Most of it has been overstated until the next study.

Now we have NICE and MHRA and all the speciality colleges for doctors and other health care professions, a revolution in what healthcare means, and none of them seem to be noticing anything.

WomanStillNotAFeeling · 14/12/2021 14:37

Worth a watch, well done that documentary team.

Those poor children/young adults Sad

I feel for Leo’s parents trusting the doctors and doing what they thought was the best cause of action for their child. Those interviews must have been so hard to do

oldwomanwhoruns · 14/12/2021 18:31

It all goes to show (womanstillnotafeeling) that we just have to get true & factual information out there. To counter all the sparkly woo-woo. It was, as you say, heartbreaking listening to Leo's parents. They had no idea that they were being sold a lie by the medicos - the lie being that this 'treatment' was established and safe, and a good idea.

The bit where they said 'she announced that she was a boy, so we affirmed him at once' - had me yelling at the screen 'Noooo!!!'

But of course, five years ago, I had no inkling of this stuff either. (Not that I would have affirmed a child - why, why did they do that ??)

WarriorN · 14/12/2021 18:31

My gosh Sad

It sounds like the safeguarding failures are similar to the Tavistock; whistleblowers hauled over hot coals and poor outcomes being hidden or not recorded.

They must know there's issues.

What other area of healthcare hides outcomes like this??

WarriorN · 14/12/2021 18:32

Carolina is amazing in her tireless pursuit of this Thanks

WarriorN · 14/12/2021 18:33

The thing is, if bone density must be checked, what happens if it's shown to be failing? Come off treatments?

That's a motivation to not Get the scans to check.

InvisibleDragon · 14/12/2021 18:55

I have a nasty feeling that reduce bone density after puberty blockers treatment is going to be used as an argument for giving cross sex hormones to minors.

FlyingOink · 14/12/2021 19:31


I have a nasty feeling that reduce bone density after puberty blockers treatment is going to be used as an argument for giving cross sex hormones to minors.

Cross sex hormones might be less physically harmful though.
Still likely to result in sterility and with girls there's the hirsutism and the voice change, but perhaps better than a crumbling spine?

(I'm not advocating for it but it might perversely be less damaging than blockers)

I think it's a harder sell to the uninitiated though.
Fallingirl · 14/12/2021 21:33

TT Exulansic makes a plausible suggestion that Jazz Jennings has acquired Prader-Willi syndrome, or something very like it, as a result of the impact of puberty blockers on the hypothalamus

We just don’t have a clue what the consequences of preventing normsl development are. And what’s worse, nobody is recording the outcomes in a controlled and scientific manner.
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