Stella Creasey forbidden from bringing her baby to Parliament

[ArabellaScott]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59396801

'"I've had a baby, I haven't given up my brain or capacity to do things and our politics and our policy making will be better by having more mums at the table," she added.'

Interesting to think how politics and daily life might be changed were it to be more mother (and child) friendly.

I don't think the situation is ideal or even ok - I would like to see discussion of full maternity cover for MPs and how that could be achieved (and also in other situations - MPs who become very ill during their term basically either have to stop doing their jobs or resign, which seems even more unfair to me)

Me too HardbackWriter I’d like to see this discussion happen and I’m fairly sure that is the discussion that Stella Creasey’s trying to start. Don’t know about whether it’s more or less unfair dependent on MPs’ illnesses or MPs’ recently having given birth and needing to keep regularly BFing .. but obviously MPs are mortal human beings like the rest of us and they will fall ill at some point or have kids. And these experiences are important perspectives to include from MPs wherever we can.
So there is a democratic and inclusion problem to be resolved then in that is the system was built for blokes with wives at home to look after them and their kids and that’s what needs to be restructured. The constituency voted for the person they wanted who may not always be available for extended time for whatever reason.
What is the best way to manage that is what SC is raising isn’t it?

Sorry I messed up the links to the right tweets, but anyone who follows her account can scroll- this is an issue of recent days, corresponding with timeline of this thread, but sample tweets are eg:

stellacreasy
@stellacreasy
·
27 Nov
And now its come full circle- I'm not on maternity leave because I don't get any cover which is why I need to take a baby being breastfed with me whilst trying to do my job. Cross MPs don't have maternity cover so mums deterred from the role? yeah. me too...

A slightly different take from Catherine Mkinnall www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a64dd57e-506a-11ec-8d72-b8ab431649b1?shareToken=4b1c0bf61e24b7ec7d86c5ded26143f9
About how flexible being an MP is when being a mother of a small baby/young kids

And now its come full circle- I'm not on maternity leave because I don't get any cover which is why I need to take a baby being breastfed with me whilst trying to do my job. Cross MPs don't have maternity cover so mums deterred from the role? yeah. me too...

So, that's the most definitive she's been (but it's slightly hard to parse because it refers to a deleted tweet), and if that is her argument then I agree with her. If taking the baby in is a protest then I agree with her. But she's muddied the waters over this repeatedly - the baby is well-behaved, banning the baby is banning mothers, other parliaments let babies in and that's much more civilized - to the point that this message is lost. It's like if you held a strike but at the same time insisted that the strike wasn't really bothering anyone. It's not an effective protest.

And she has to be quite careful about claiming that she wasn't offered cover - she was, but not on terms she was happy to accept. And I don't think it's a great solution either - though it is a uniquely difficult situation because we vote for specific, named MPs - but it's not true that she was given no options at all.

Basically, you're 'fairly sure' that she's arguing that, I think she might be (but I also think she's trying to have her cake and eat it), but if neither of us actually know it's not great communication from this veteran campaigner, is it?

Completely agree @HardbackWriter - the fact that there's so much confusion about exactly what the point is that Creasy is trying to make, suggests that the campaign needs a bit more work.

Good to see Catherine McKinnell's article linked upthread .

I can't help but see Creasy as a self-publicist above all else. I've come across her a few times in a work capacity over the years and found her to be mainly interested in herself and very hard to work with. Friends who live in her constituency say the same. They're rather nonplussed by the "I can't let my constituents down by not speaking in their behalf in Parliament" line. My friends are all labour voters but they are not fans of Creasy and don't feel that she represents them at all well in Parliament. I think they'd be delighted if she stayed away from the press and the chamber for 6 months. A nice locum could get on with constituency case work, Creasy could enjoy her mat leave with her babies, and everyone would be happy.

Catherine McKinnell is a Labour MP and that article would seem to be a rather pointed intervention into Creasy's campaigning.

The situation that prompted this has been clearly set out in all the articles I saw when it hit the news. I read a handful of mainstream news outlets and it was on BBC.

All the pieces I read outlined the situation clearly.

This thread is an object lesson in certain human behaviour. Really interesting.

@CheeseMmmm it’s more that there are a number of issues here. Bringing the baby into parliament is one issue, which promoted the thread. But this is part of a larger campaign which SC has been talking about for the past three months about MPs and maternity leave. The wider campaign is very confused IMO and as a number of other posters have said. Especially as she was offered/MPs are offered a lot more leave and cover than she has made out. So it can be both true that the particular situation in parliament is because of a recent rule change (as you’ve pointed out multiple times) and that the wider campaign is muddled.

Personally I think it’s ultimately unhelpful to promote the message that women should and can just carry on working as usual with small babies. Stella is my MP and I really wish that she would just take the leave and cover that’s been offered. As Catherine McKinnell points out she’s making it seem like parliament is less set up for mothers than it actually is.

This is why you don't take a small child to work: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8460403.stm

I don’t have any problem with babies in Parliament, I’m originally from NZ and it’s quite acceptable there:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-49421455

The speaker has been quoted as saying babies have a calming influence on debates.

NZ PM also brought her baby to the UN general assembly:

www.thenationalnews.com/world/the-americas/new-zealand-pm-brings-baby-daughter-to-un-general-assembly-1.773654?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIntjWjvW_9AIVGoBQBh2wpw7oEAMYASAAEgIWKfD_BwE

NZ Parliament is nearly 50% female while in Britain HoC is less than 30%. I support actions to make it easier for women to combine being an MP with motherhood, which I think is what Stella is arguing for.

I support actions to make it easier for women to combine being an MP with motherhood

But don't support the recognition of how much work is involved in being a mother to a small child? So it becomes something that women are expected to take on in addition to a full time job? In that case, why bother with maternity leave? We could simply scrap it. Also staffing ratios in nurseries. Why only 1:3 if caring for a baby doesn't reduce your ability to carry out a full time job (though why have nurseries at all?)

You can't really equate the UK and NZ, in fact most other, parliaments. The UK parliament is much more combatative and is actually physically set up for that. Its much more rough and tumble. If you look at the Scottish and Welsh Parliaments, they are much more sedate affairs. Everyone having their own tables and chairs. If in NZ you took a baby in, each of the 120 mps have a desk they share with one other mp but they have very wide seats which gives them space from other people, a bit of protective area round you and the baby. That's the absolute opposite of the uk, where 650 people are crushed together and at busy sessions are practically sat on each others knees and even up the stairs. I don't think a baby is going to give calm uk debates. Lol. But that's what's so distinctive about uk debates, that they get fiery and full of emotion.

@Lovelyricepudding I don’t think it really follows that allowing babies in Parliament sends a message that women in all workplaces should take their babies to work, Parliament is fairly unique in that these are elected representatives so the usual maternity cover approach doesn’t really apply. And I guess I see it as more about normalising and removing barriers to breastfeeding.

@madisonbridges not really convinced that Westminster has a monopoly on fiery and emotional political speeches. And I’m not sure that people behaving aggressively is something to celebrate, that seems like classic behaviour for a male dominated space. Perhaps if there were more female MPs (and babies) people would behave differently.

[quote IceandIndigo]@madisonbridges not really convinced that Westminster has a monopoly on fiery and emotional political speeches. And I’m not sure that people behaving aggressively is something to celebrate, that seems like classic behaviour for a male dominated space. Perhaps if there were more female MPs (and babies) people would behave differently.[/quote]
But I like the fact that it's combatative and the atmosphere that that creates. It keeps .os on their toes. Male dominated space? You don't think women can't be aggressive? Lol. You obviously don't spend much time on MN! You need a thick skin to survive in politics. You think the likes of Thatcher, Williams, Harmer, May can't hold their own with men? You are really doing women down.

I didn’t for one moment say that women can’t be aggressive, or hold their own with men. But yes, men are more aggressive than women on average, that’s a documented effect of testosterone, and the reason why violent crime perpetrators are, quite overwhelmingly, male.

But yes, men are more aggressive than women on average,

Maybe in the average population but not amongst politicians. They are all capable of going for the throat.

it is only really PMQ's that are combative, much of the rest is very relaxed, just involves an awful lot of waiting around for your part of the debate to come up. Not as stressful for a small baby as being separated.