Stella Creasey forbidden from bringing her baby to Parliament

[ArabellaScott]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59396801

'"I've had a baby, I haven't given up my brain or capacity to do things and our politics and our policy making will be better by having more mums at the table," she added.'

Interesting to think how politics and daily life might be changed were it to be more mother (and child) friendly.

@TooBigForMyBoots

I can think of loads of jobs where it's fine. All the self employed women (and some men) I know have taken their children to work at some point. Of course it's not suitable if you are performing surgery or drilling the road, but doing paperwork, research or voting can be done with a baby in tow.

Nobody is saying anything of the kind.
Yes they are. Shes been called "entitled", "attention seeking" and the obligatory "do the same as the rest of us plebs" race to the bottom. The sort of misogynist bullshit likely to be seen on Red Pill or 4Chan.

Er , no no- one has said she shouldn't be in a job or be confined to the kitchen.

Yes people have criticised her as you say but how you turned that into "she shouldn't work/ she should be in the kitchen" is entirely down to your imagination.

They haven't forbidden her from taking her baby into her offices, they have just said she can't take children into the debating chamber.

As a result of a recent sneaky rule change that even the Speaker was unaware of.
@KimikosNightmare, I took DC2 into meetings and training, ExH took DC1 on recces and onto set, BiL is a farmer and has the DC with him regularly and my brother actually set up his own business with his children in tow because he didnt want to leave his son and return to office working for someone else. I get that it's not for everyone and very much depends on the parent, child and job.

Oh and my granny brought her DC when she worked in the market. In fact all over the world and throughout history women have brought their children to work.

@TooBigForMyBoots

I can think of loads of jobs where it's fine. All the self employed women (and some men) I know have taken their children to work at some point. Of course it's not suitable if you are performing surgery or drilling the road, but doing paperwork, research or voting can be done with a baby in tow.

Nobody is saying anything of the kind.
Yes they are. Shes been called "entitled", "attention seeking" and the obligatory "do the same as the rest of us plebs" race to the bottom. The sort of misogynist bullshit likely to be seen on Red Pill or 4Chan.

What I think is misogynistic - and actively harmful to women's rights - is pretending that it's perfectly possible to both care for a baby and work, which logically makes maternity leave an unnecessary indulgence. I have sympathy with Stella Creasy if she's saying she should be allowed to be on maternity leave right now (though I'm still not sure why she turned down the maternity leave she was offered because she didn't get to dictate the pay rate of her replacement), but she seems to be muddying the water by suggesting that taking the baby along to work is an alternative to mat leave or that banning babies from workplaces is the same thing as banning working mothers, which are both obvious nonsense.

@TooBigForMyBoots

Oh and my granny brought her DC when she worked in the market. In fact all over the world and throughout history women have brought their children to work.

Oh please- you aren't comparing like with like.

Oh my granny took her children to the market stall/ my granny took her children into the fields every day. Yes that's just like every other modern work place today.

And as another poster pointed out, pretending that it's perfectly possible to both care for a baby and work is actively harmful to women's rights - logically makes maternity leave (or paternity leave for that matter) an unnecessary indulgence.

It's not about pretending that it's perfectly possible to both care for a baby and work, it's about Reasonable Accommodation for working mothers.

@TooBigForMyBoots

They haven't forbidden her from taking her baby into her offices, they have just said she can't take children into the debating chamber.

As a result of a recent sneaky rule change that even the Speaker was unaware of.
@KimikosNightmare, I took DC2 into meetings and training, ExH took DC1 on recces and onto set, BiL is a farmer and has the DC with him regularly and my brother actually set up his own business with his children in tow because he didnt want to leave his son and return to office working for someone else. I get that it's not for everyone and very much depends on the parent, child and job.

If you or your husband were advising me on anything I was paying you fees for if either of you turned up with your children in tow I'd be looking for another advisor.

As far as I'm concerned it's rude to me as your client. Your focus during the time I am being billed for your advice should be on my affairs- not diverted to your private family life.

As for children being on a farm- I grew up on one. Farms can be dangerous for adults, let alone children.

www.nidirect.gov.uk/news/child-safety-farms

If you or your husband were advising me on anything I was paying you fees for if either of you turned up with your children in tow I'd be looking for another advisor.

And that is your choice. If I elected Stella Creasy I'd be delighted that she could vote in the HoC on my behalf. Even if she does have a baby.

@TooBigForMyBoots

If you or your husband were advising me on anything I was paying you fees for if either of you turned up with your children in tow I'd be looking for another advisor.

And that is your choice. If I elected Stella Creasy I'd be delighted that she could vote in the HoC on my behalf. Even if she does have a baby.

There's nothing in the current set up at Westminster preventing her being an M.P or voting in the H of C.

You are choosing to ignore the generous maternity provision and facilities which have been pointed out many times.

@TooBigForMyBoots

They haven't forbidden her from taking her baby into her offices, they have just said she can't take children into the debating chamber.

As a result of a recent sneaky rule change that even the Speaker was unaware of.
@KimikosNightmare, I took DC2 into meetings and training, ExH took DC1 on recces and onto set, BiL is a farmer and has the DC with him regularly and my brother actually set up his own business with his children in tow because he didnt want to leave his son and return to office working for someone else. I get that it's not for everyone and very much depends on the parent, child and job.

No one had considered doing it before. When she had her last baby, they trialled locum mps. I guess they let her bring the baby in or at least they didn't forbid her. After her maternity cover, they reviewed how it had all worked as you do after a trial of something They decided not to the locum mp route after the trial. They decided not to allow children into the debating chamber. Presumably it worked for her but not for other people. The speaker has already said that he has been lobbied by mothers not yo allow babies in the chamber. Maybe they have some awareness of the issues that is greater than yours? That Lindsay Hoyle didn't know of the changes, is a reflection of Lindsay Hoyle not being across procedures. I obviously don't know what your training job is. But I worked in schools, collegs and universities. No one can bring their children in as they work. Apart from the fact of in strange, if you're having to attend to a child you can't attend to your class. That isn't fair on your learners.

@TooBigForMyBoots

If you or your husband were advising me on anything I was paying you fees for if either of you turned up with your children in tow I'd be looking for another advisor.

And that is your choice. If I elected Stella Creasy I'd be delighted that she could vote in the HoC on my behalf. Even if she does have a baby.

That's a specious argument. You can vote in the house of commons if you're on maternity leave, ill, overseas working, out of Parliament working, or anything in fact the speaker is happy to authorise you for.

@TooBigForMyBoots

Oh and my granny brought her DC when she worked in the market. In fact all over the world and throughout history women have brought their children to work.

And they used to put kids up chimneys but things have moved on.

You can vote in the house of commons if you're on maternity leave, ill, overseas working, out of Parliament working, or anything in fact the speaker is happy to authorise you for.

The Speaker was happy for SC to be in Chambers because it was allowed before. Unfortunately someone was unhappy and a rule change was put on the books without informing the Speaker. SC turned up with her baby, did her job and didn't prevent anyone else from doing theirs.

It wasn't allowed in that there were written rules to permit it, but it was forbidden as there were no rules saying it wasn't allowed.
Now those rules have been made. The speaker is responsible for the administration of the house and has control over all the areas of Parliament that relate to HofC. I would say the debating chamber comes under that. Hoyle should have made himself aware of what was going on. The ruling was made by the Ways and Means committee, the chairman of which is the Deputy Speaker (Elizabeth Laing). So presumably the Speaker and his principal deputy do talk.

They trialled having the baby in the house. It turns out a lot of people, including mothers of babies, were unhappy. It's their working environment too. SC said that she had received comments about it from Labour colleagues - the people she sits amongst.

That's what trials are for, to see if something works or not. This might have worked for SC, but it's clear it did not work for many others.
Mothers are besotted wuth their babies (rightly so) and can see no harm. Others are not besotted and maybe don't want to share an office with a crying baby or sit next to a pooping baby. Or maybe they'd just like a grown up, child free environment where they can relax from domestic duties and concentrate on what they're doing. So maybe it is a problem for them.

[quote KimikosNightmare]As for children being on a farm- I grew up on one. Farms can be dangerous for adults, let alone children.

www.nidirect.gov.uk/news/child-safety-farms[/quote]
Yes, I used to work with someone who grew up on a farm. She said her dad never recovered after one of the children was killed when they were at work with him. I also remember visiting some distant relatives on a farm, dad's 2nd cousins or something. Their child had died when playing on a tractor while dad was working.

I don't think taking a child to work on a farm is a good idea.

One of my children was in hospital, anaesthetist came round to check children before the op, he had a toddler with him. He seemed very distracted when I tried to talk to him, I felt my child wasn't 100% and was concerned whether we should go ahead or delay the op. Well talking to him was difficult as toddler wanted his attention. He was most disgruntled when I said I was discharging my child, he asked why and I said I didn't feel happy with him doing the anaesthetic.

Some jobs need your full attention.

They trialled having the baby in the house. It turns out a lot of people, including mothers of babies, were unhappy.
Who are these lot of people? BTW, mothers of babies can be as obstructive and misogynistic as anyone else as this thread and others show. Fortunately the Speaker has requested a review into this new rule.

They didn't trial it they implemented it. Got loads of positive press.

And then reversed the decision behind the scenes. In September. Didn't draw attention. Even speaker of house wasn't aware of rule change.

Speaker of house has ordered review of change.

I find it fascinating that though whole thread my posts with FACTS and ones that are in the news.

Have been completely ignored in favour of having a big argument about women, work and children in general. Scattered with incorrect 'facts' about HoC etc.

Totally understandable as work women and children is a popular topic to have a big old ruck about.

But even those usually some posters at least are interested in actual situation!

Anyway doubt anyone interested in this post

I'm interested in how it played out.

You haven't been shouting into the void @CheeseMmmm, I've been reading them.

@TooBigForMyBoots

They trialled having the baby in the house. It turns out a lot of people, including mothers of babies, were unhappy. Who are these lot of people? BTW, mothers of babies can be as obstructive and misogynistic as anyone else as this thread and others show. Fortunately the Speaker has requested a review into this new rule.

Lindsay Hoyle's quote.. He added: “I have been heavily lobbied not to change the rules, by other mothers. And it’s been very clear, I have texts on my phone saying ‘do not give in’ and that’s why the procedural committee has been asked to look into it and report back.”

Thank you TooBIg

Seeing as someone is reading. Update!

I said it would be interesting to know who proposed the September change and how signed off.

I said I think yesterday I would put money on JRM.

Read news today. Guess what. I called it!

I think it is as evening standard that Stella creasey said.

That in September she had had a meeting with him that she had asked for to discuss things to do with children and MPs. She took baby. (Which was I'm sure could have been to get up his nose. Maybe not. Don't know. But JRM is just so awful that the desire to nark him is entirely understandable!).

As meeting assume not in parliament. Different situation.

So he must have thought fuck you. And immediately gone and reversed that rule. Quietly and within same month. Very fast.

To show her who is really in charge, and make her ability to engage fully in representing her constituents and supporting her party.

Fucks sake.

I just KNEW it would be his work. He has form. Covid insisting initially all voting had to be done in person at house. Obviously leading to certain MPs finding it difficult or impossible to vote.

Other stuff as well.

Fucker.

Still not seen any convincing or reasonable argument for having a baby in the debating chamber.

This is worth repeating. Lindsay Hoyle's quote..
He added: “I have been heavily lobbied not to change the rules, by other mothers. And it’s been very clear, I have texts on my phone saying ‘do not give in’

There's nothing preventing Creasey doing her job. There is absolutely no reason for her baby to be in the chamber or in any other workplace. Why bother having maternity leave or childcare if , according to some posters, there are so many jobs that can be done at the same time as looking after a baby. The reality is that's nonsense- just means that neither task is probably being done properly.

THE RULES SAID IT WAS FINE UNTIL QUIETLY CHANGED IN SEPTEMBER.

Laughing now tbh!