Trans ideology and mental health

[IamAporcupine]

I didn't know whether to post this here, in mental health or even in AIBU, but as I feel quite fragile, I thought this place would be safer.

First of all, I have to thank all the knowledgeable posters for having opened my eyes to this madness. I have been reading and following the (lack of) debate for a while now, and very slowly become more vocal about it. I am not a SM person but recently started to follow some people on IG. I commented a couple of times, and have already been called a transphobe, a bigot, to go an educated myself, etc etc. I thought I was OK with this, but I now realise I am not, or at least, not always.

The more I read or interact with trans ideologues or allies, the more scared I become. I spent a couple of hours yesterday listening to TT exulansic and ended up with a really bad headache. To realise that there are people out there who see this ideology as their reality makes me feel very unsettled. I think it is probably due to the gaslighting involved. I spent many years of this in my marriage without even knowing what it was, and feeling that again makes me panicky.

On top of that, I realised the other day that I probably would not be able to discuss any of these feelings with friends or even with my therapist, as they are all still completely blind, which made me feel very isolated.

Does anyone else experience this? Any advice?!

As an example, I have just come accross this about plural identities, which I didn't even know existed.
smallcedarforest.org/on-transgender-and-plural-experience/

Is this the 'real' world now? How is it possible?

It is a shock and very hard on mental health, I find I can't unsee examples of the poor treatment of women and disregard of women's rights in the pursuit of this ideology now. And I discover new examples more than I want to.

Personally in the interests of my own mental health I have to take time off from actively thinking about it/engaging in any sort of activism. Although there are still constant unwanted reminders of how shitty things are for women I just focus on my own hobbies for a while - yoga, running etc. Things where you have to be in the moment and concentrating on what you're doing.

In terms of talking to people, I talked to a handful of very very trusted friends about it. I also accidentally discovered some GC people in my circle, through noticing their signatures on the BPAS letter, which was such a welcome surprise. More people than you think are critical of this ideology and the more it is dragged out into the sunlight the braver people feel. If you genuinely feel it would be a bad idea to bring up even peripherally with friends, you could join one of the in person grassroots networks so you have some like minded women to discuss in person with.

So yes, try to take breaks, focus on the happiness you have in your life and generally try to channel Helen Joyce, Kathleen Stock, JK Rowling’s amazing zen beneficent yet kickass vibes.

We are so lucky to have so many amazing women fighting for us!

OP, it can be very hard on one’s mental state. I have to step back from it from time to time as what is happening to women’s rights and language makes me so angry - and I am trying not to turn into my perpetually furious mother. (I have to be vigilant!) I am endlessly amazed by the ability of women like JKR and Maya to take so much abuse and so much absolutely shameless misrepresentation of their views by people who should know better, and continue with grace and dignity. I know all grace and dignity would leave the building if I were in their shoes.

Just earlier today on a different thread from someone new there was a post saying every 6 months or so there’s a new thread here from someone about the toll this is taking on women’s mh. Search for the other ones, you’ll understand you’re not alone.

Don’t interact with predators. Doesn’t matter if online or if trans or tra’s or whatever. Live by that rule, at least until stronger.

Imho get a new therapist. If you can’t trust them there’s no therapeutic benefit.

Someone posted info about local groups a while back- ressisters I think? Search and email to sign up to get new friends who understand. Find your local fb gc group and start going to whatever local meetings there are. There are other online gc groups other than here, but other posters would need to give details (I’m a snarky introvert).

Do you have dh/dp who gets it? This is the only person personally I would have tried to persuade to see my pov, if he didn’t get it the minute I explained. Otherwise I’d cut people loose, but honestly I’m not a helpful example when it comes to that because ^^ snarky introvert.

Start focusing on the huge positives going on within this. Sign up to conservatives for women so you can follow baroness Nicholson’s work to tackle this. Get familiar with books, Twitter, YouTube, websites etc from those who get it. Like Kathleen Stock, JKR, triggernometry and so on. Once you realise we are the majority, and become so familiar with the arguments to common sense, it becomes much more possible to cope. Stick with the positive changes with people waking up to this- like the bbc getting rid of stonewall- and avoid the scary ones for now.

And learn not to apologise. If you want to or need to say something just say it, don’t try to persuade anyone with it, stat facts or what you feel, with no disclaimer about not a transphobe yadda yadda support trans rights yadda yadda. It makes us come across like we have a reason to be apologetic, we don’t. Knowing facts is not transphobic, fighting for women’s rights should not come with a disclaimer.

And step back whenever you need to. I know it can feel all encompassing at times, but there’s plenty here taking action to not need every last voice every second of the day. It’s ok if you miss one petition or news article or crowd funder etc. Take a breather however works best for you. And I know that can be difficult once eyes are opened- going to the gym isn’t the same when you feel aware there could be tw ‘female penis’ in changing rooms or films/tv feel hyper charged with trans characters that have popped up specifically with a political agenda (as opposed to just trans people being visible while living their lives as they of course should) that suddenly ruin the relaxation from it, and so on. But find new ways if you need to and take care of yourself and your sanity first.

Rant here as needed. Ask for help with specific problems as needed.

It is completely mad op I totally get where you are coming from. Plus maddening as its so blatantly unfair to women (ie sports) and yet the sporting bodies seem to give no shits. Imagine if it affecting men's sports how quickly it would all be sorted. But no. So to be a woman watching it all can feel like drowning in a sea of nonsense. I also recommend stepping away from time to time to reconnect with reality and calming things like nature. Because in 100 years no matter what happens it won't matter to us one iota.

My job had training- we had Alok come to talk to us via zoom. He spent about 15 minutes on his opening statement complaining about how unfair it was when he was a teenager being harassed in the street for being ‘gender non-conforming’, how hard it was for him and how he had suffered. I wept silent tears as I remembered being sexually harassed in the street from the age of 11. I was so angry, he was so ignorant. If he changed his outfit he could have stopped it all. I couldn’t.

What makes me feel very frightened is knowing the human mind is fragile at the best of times and all this way of speaking - exemplified by the self-obsessed writer of what you posted- children being told about different identities etc is exactly what will make them grow up to have vulnerable mental health.

I just heard a news reader refer to Sam Smith as ‘they’ on National Television. There doesn’t seem to be much hope.

I feel the same way OP. I recommend trying to get to some real life events and meet people who get it. That has made a real difference to my mental health. I talk about it with many other people and while they don't think i'm evil, they don't really understand because they don't know the extent of what is going on.

Also, some of the really crazy online TRAs are really much less scary in reality - they're just kids. I was surprised when I saw the protests outside some of the meetings by how non-scary they were.

Hi OP, like you I found echoes of the rhetoric of this ideology in memories of gaslighting and manipulation I experienced within an abusive relationship. I swore to myself back then I would never allow someone to paint me a false reality and bully me into agreeing with it ever again. I then found around the start of lockdown that two close family members are embedded in this ideology (so much so and so out of character for them it seems to be a cult). So there has been personal loss on top. Luckily, when things got really bad I found a counsellor and she is great, totally gets it and tellingly, I am not her only client in this position or worries about loved ones. I don’t see her often, but she helps me come to terms with the fact I cannot help them or save them, I have to look after myself and the relationship I had with them has possibly changed for ever. This place and the many wonderful people in our counter-movement give me hope and I do a bit of gardening for all the claims and challenges and appeals that come along. I haven’t been to any in person events yet but most of them are shown online now so I watch when I’m feeling up to it. The wider media finally seems to have found some courage and things are looking up.

That post is from 2014. Seeing how fast these tunes change, I wouldn't pay it any heed.

Thanks everyone, I feel better now.
I wrote the OP when my head was still spinning (as you could probably tell!).

Something that will certainly help me is to become more proactive - I will try to search for local groups. I've offered a couple of detransitioners to translate their youtube videos into Spanish but I have not heard back, they probably thought I was mad!

@Bellendejour

So yes, try to take breaks, focus on the happiness you have in your life and generally try to channel Helen Joyce, Kathleen Stock, JK Rowling’s amazing zen beneficent yet kickass vibes.

We are so lucky to have so many amazing women fighting for us!

I am curious now to know why your other post was deleted?

As someone who previously had a mental health breakdown triggered by activism in this area - my advice is don't torture yourself with this.

The more you look into it, the more batshit, frustrating & disorientating it becomes. This topic can literally break your brain.

The only difference between you and your 'average bloke down the pub who thinks its bloody barmy' - is that you know about the day in, day out insanity of the back and forth of this battle.

As much as its important for the daily journey of this issue to be documented somewhere (and it is being recorded online here and in other places by multiple contributors); you as an individual do not to turn your brain into a personal catalogue of the whole thing.

All you need to do is decide your view and your boundaries. If you want to you can express that in a way is that you feel safe and comfortable -
Whether thats in private at the ballot box, anonymously on here, between close friends or family at the dinner table, or more openly in an active campaigning role. Each and everyone of these outlets are meaningful and you dont have to do anything at all if you feel its going to scare or stress you out and severely affect you in a negative way! Take time out if you need to. Regroup and recentre.

Theres an existential tag team of millions of us. The back and forth will continue; but unfortunately I think thats just going to be part of this journey. Sadly it seems the leaders that be have no foresight and the shit will have to hit the fan to be able to prove that we were right when we said this is a harmful ideology. That obviously is no consolation to the numerous individuals who become collateral damage - whether thats trans children who were told they could change sex or women raped in a prison. Its heartbreaking - but you didn't cause this. Its not your fault and its not your job to undo this.

Look after yourself first and foremost. This will end eventually

My job had training- we had Alok come to talk to us via zoom.^^

Goodness

I had a meeting earlier with someone I don't know but am working with, who I suspect was either FTM or non binary and I was constantly on edge, about what I said, what my unwoke colleagues said, my facial expressions. I don't know this, and she was really nice and if I knew I just would have avoided pronouns at all, but this is how this ideology is pernicious.

The only difference between you and your 'average bloke down the pub who thinks its bloody barmy' - is that you know about the day in, day out insanity of the back and forth of this battle.

YY.

I think it's really scary and upsetting when you realise how deeply society doesn't respect or value women. This issue brings it into stark relief and it's not easy to hold that in your head from day to day. I think it's one of the main reasons so many women support trans ideology - if they were to think it through and recognise the inherent misogyny, it would be too difficult for them to live with.

My only advice is to find a tribe of people who think and feel the same way as you do - even if that is just online - and use it as a regular antidote to all the be-kind gaslighting out there. And know we'll beat this - because as Helen Joyce says, we have to.

I'm from Australia and usually interact on the Australian babycenter group however the contempt some of the women on that site show for women when making any mention of the distinction between sex and gender is just profoundly saddening. I dont know if i can use that site and spend more time here, although this is my first comment!

Women have lost so much class consciousness because of this social construction being confused with sex. It really effects me mentally as someone who is capable of recognising the distinction and knowing that women's rights and gains have been fought and won on the basis of our sex. Its a huge despair when we see women ready to throw this away.

I think it's one of the main reasons so many women support trans ideology - if they were to think it through and recognise the inherent misogyny, it would be too difficult for them to live with.

I think you have absolutely hit the nail on the head.

My DPs little sister is a lovely girl. She is so kind and caring and genuinely wants the best for everyone. However she is the biggest advocate of TWAW you could meet - not in a nasty abusive TRA way. But in a really deep down heartfelt way where the injustice of hearing someone saying TWarentW brings her close to tears.

Yet at that same time I have never met a young woman so terrified of men. She is a lesbian and lives with her female partner. She recalls the times she has felt unsafe and threatened by a man walking behind her, men in bars and in a recent house purchase their number one consideration was an upper floor flat instead of a house for the added security against possible intruders.

Deep down I know she knows theres a difference between men and women. Not just physically (obviously as a lesbian) but psychologically in who is most likely to represent a real life threat to her whether thats through sexual violence or aggression.

Its something I think about often because in the same way this topic is mentally damaging to all of us women who cant believe this is the 'reality' of our world now; I worry about the MH problems and mental pain that will arise for the 'other side' when this all goes back to normal.

Having been through the pain myself of feeling like the status quo is polar opposite to what I grew up to believe was objective truth. My DPs poor sister, and many others including children who were taught they could change sex and that TWAW/TMAM - will feel this same pain and same mental disorientation.

It didn't have to be like this and it really does break my heart the mess that has been created. None of this has been a kindness to anyone.

I think it's really scary and upsetting when you realise how deeply society doesn't respect or value women. This issue brings it into stark relief and it's not easy to hold that in your head from day to day. I think it's one of the main reasons so many women support trans ideology - if they were to think it through and recognise the inherent misogyny, it would be too difficult for them to live with.

This is so true.

Hey @IamAporcupine

Pretty sure it’s because I referenced THAT WHICH SHALL NOT BE NAMED (three letter term) that I thought we were free to discuss here as a general, non person specific topic. BUT apparently we have to pretend it doesn’t exist while PEOPLE upload videos of themselves masturbating in toilets and changing rooms on social media because that’s FINE AND NOT AT ALL CONCERNING #bekind

How are you feeling today? Hope you’re good :)

Are you not allowed to mention AGP?

I have really tried not to come to this conclusion but I am starting to feel as if the way I feel about these issues has changed permanently the way I feel about some family members. I won't go into it all, and I am very conflicted because back-seat parenting is stupid and offensive, but basically I think a young person in my extended family has been badly let down because of bad luck timing in the cultural moment that coincided with her tendency towards certain MH difficulties - and what I am struggling not to see as, but do regrettably and regretfully see as, weakness in how she was taken care of.

Covid drove wedges between my extended family and I took advantage of it, to not to deal with things I didn't approve of and had no say over. There are other reasons that are closer to home why not being very close to my extended family felt like a good idea, and I've had some really productive times. But I'm sad now thinking about how I can never go home, I suppose. I don't feel that they are my family