DP reported for Anti Trans at work

[goingback]

dP is a retail manager and yesterday one of his student weekend staff asked if the company will follow M&S and allow staff to show their pronouns . He replied that he didn't know but suspected that not many people will want to do it and will most definitely not be forced. The worker said that as a CIS man he is privileged and should understand gender rights better . He asked what she meant by CIS and she said that he was not a trans man , he stated he was a man and she has went away , told other staff that he is anti-trans and also emailed HR.
To say he is pissed off is an understatement but he now expects to have to explain himself at work. He has said to me that surely he gets to decide what how he describes himself and i agree. Can anything happen to him?

In fact if anyone has done things wrong it's her.

Really hope this stupid person gets a good shake up. I will go into a livid tantrum if anybody dares to call me cis.

@OperationDessertStorm

Ah yes. That well know tactic for persuading people to help, understand and support your cause - reporting them to HR if you don’t immediately agree.

yep, make you wonder how these idiots survive in the world without melting

She made a suggested change to the uniform.
Your husband said "Not likely to happen".

No, he said that he didn't think it would be wanted by many people.

He also never said that this person wasn't allowed to do this for themselves. I don't think many people have a particular issue if individuals want to do this, but most of them don't seem to be happy with this - they expect everybody to be encouraged/forced/shamed into following suit - and the vast majority of people, who will identify by default with the pronouns that you'd 100% expect, simply don't care about this as something for themselves.

They view it pretty much like an ardent football fan who isn't just content to go out in public wearing their beloved Chelsea shirt, but will also demand of everybody they meet - regardless of whether they are football fanatics, quite enjoy the game, have no real interest or actively hate it - to declare whom they support, and then be expected to justify their reason for this, when if challenged.

Most people just want to go to work, do their job and get paid for it - they don't want to be made to politicise being an accountant, cleaner, teacher, shop assistant or whatever (fair enough if their job is a brand/belief ambassador).

Perhaps we should just go back(?) to calling people "they"?

I often say for example "I saw Sue & they told me..."

Really? I'm genuinely surprised at that. I - and just about everybody I know - wouldn't think twice about referring to an obviously-female/male known person as 'she' or 'he' unless they had stated otherwise or there was any ambiguity/reason to believe that they may not identify this way. I'd only ever use 'they' by default if it was 'the assistant' or 'the manager' etc. (whom I hadn't yet met) rather than 'Sandra' or 'Timothy' - especially if I already knew them.

@Shannonz

My husband once helped a female colleague move some heavy boxes She reported him to HR for being sexist stating that she didn’t need help and the only reason why he did it was because he didn’t think she was strong enough as a woman, this resulted in him getting a written warning The world has gone crazy

I would be very interested to know about that employer's manual handling policies. Employees should not be getting written warnings for doing things safely, even if another employee would rather risk their back in order to maintain their pride.

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll
Not likely to happen because he didn't think it would be wanted by many people
Plus he has no interest in being the badge police.

It's a uniform.
A standardised branding uniform is chosen by the company to enable customers recognise (a brand ambassador) staff when looking for the last of the cranberry sauce.

Part of his job is to make sure that staff have the correct uniform so look respectable and have a name tag etc.
By default staff member wearing a non-approved badge needs to be instructed to remove it e.g. BA(?) sacked a woman over her wearing a cross?

As I understand M&S has an official brand approved pronoun badge. I will bet if the Store Manager decides that a pronoun badge is going to be standard uniform in her/his store, that employees will be left with no option but to raise a grievance with HR.
But catch 22 HR are pushing the badges as good brand ambassador message. There is a obvious HR bias against the grievance succeeding.

He made it clear he would not force anyone to participate
So as you point out she is likely end up the only one with a badge.

Her current behaviour of harassing her manager would indicate that if an optional badge was introduced she would harass other staff for being "anti-trans", non transmen / transwomen who must comply etc.

As a manager his job would be to manage the conflict within the HR rules.

Excellent point, @DrBlackbird - I agree that this sudden burst onto the scene of various causes and in particular terminology is just the way to trip up older, more senior employees and for some junior people to feel “empowered”. Only a lot of the time it’s simply that the young person is just another bully.

One thing not mentioned yet, but very important. If he finds himself being approached again, for any reason at all, by the employee in question, he must not be alone. Make sure another member of staff whom he trusts and knows to be reliable is there as a witness to anything said.

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

Perhaps we should just go back(?) to calling people "they"?

I often say for example "I saw Sue & they told me..."

Really? I'm genuinely surprised at that. I - and just about everybody I know - wouldn't think twice about referring to an obviously-female/male known person as 'she' or 'he' unless they had stated otherwise or there was any ambiguity/reason to believe that they may not identify this way. I'd only ever use 'they' by default if it was 'the assistant' or 'the manager' etc. (whom I hadn't yet met) rather than 'Sandra' or 'Timothy' - especially if I already knew them.

Perhaps it's me using an improper way of talking?

It's not that I never use he/she or that I use they on purpose to avoid using he/she.

As yet I don't know any male who isn't he or any female who isn't she so it's not done deliberately or for any particular reason iyswim.

Possible I don't do it that much, but it strikes me as all this fuss when there's already a pronoun that could be used.

thanks all , quick update -HR have notified him of the email and have told him that it not be progressed . The complainer has been informed of company policy
DP has spent a lot of time reading up as he now fully expects that he will have more of this in future, and has told his boss and HR that he will have to ensure he only has witnessed conversations with this person. This bit will really get to him as he is not used to having that type of professional relationship with his staff.
Again many thanks for the links and advice- have learnt a lot the last couple of days

Surely he can't get in trouble for saying "I'm a man".

I hope your DP has the full support of HR on this, OP. It sounds like they are at least tacitly siding with him, but it would be good to get in writing what has happened, in case of any future issues.

Your DP sounds very wise (and fair) - this person sounds like a real trouble-causer to be on his guard against.

Thanks for the update, I am sure you are both relieved that HR closed out the complaint.
If it comes up in future he can close the conversation down by saying that
*) that type of decision is made at corporate management level
*) the person will have to contacts HR directly
*) he is not in a position to make any changes and won't be discussing it further.

He could limit any conversation in work about this to his boss and HR. If he is not feeding into the drama there is no possibility of someone using HR against him.

The employee has a right to make an official complaint through HR but he could push back on how she behaved with other employee and ask HR to warn the employee against the nasty gossip

@diddl

Perhaps we should just go back(?) to calling people "they"?

I often say for example "I saw Sue & they told me..."

Perhaps it's an incorrect way of speaking, but at least I'm not assuming that Sue is she & wants to be known as she!

I agree that "they" does get used in informal speech even where we know the sex of the person.

Glad to read your update OP, that’s a relief. I think SolasAnla has made a good suggestion of having some well-rehearsed phrases ready to roll off the tongue to shut down any other instances, should the need arise and obviously the witnessed only conversations with this particular member of staff.

With respect to PP talking about how some younger employees’ attitudes, I read the following article the other day:
www.nytimes.com/2021/10/28/business/gen-z-workplace-culture.html

I read that too! The comments are really amusing.

Has anyone wondered how the French deal with this (no neuter gender?)

Could he report the complainer for insisting there is a difference between a man and a trans man? Doesn't sound in line with genderism to me. And yes the complainer assumed his gender identity and sex.

@mumwon

Has anyone wondered how the French deal with this (no neuter gender?)

They've created new pronouns - this has been all over the news (or maybe it's just my newsfeed!).

@MonsignorMirth

Could he report the complainer for insisting there is a difference between a man and a trans man? Doesn't sound in line with genderism to me. And yes the complainer assumed his gender identity and sex.

Playing this game wouldn't work well.

She's the type of 'woke' that makes trans people look bad. She shouldn't be responding like that to him when he didn't know if their colleagues would want to share their pronouns.

Glad HR took him seriously, and he knows what to do in future with questions like that.

If I were in his shoes I’d say I was nonbinary man and that she misgendered him by assuming he was cis and then when he objected to “cis” walked off in a huff.

Sounds like a sensible outcome. Your DH can be better prepared another time and having some key phrases to hand to deflect to the appropriate person in the company to respond or give him time to reflect before answering would be prudent.
Petty retaliation would be unprofessional and from what you have said, sounds like he wouldn't be so daft.