DP reported for Anti Trans at work

[goingback]

dP is a retail manager and yesterday one of his student weekend staff asked if the company will follow M&S and allow staff to show their pronouns . He replied that he didn't know but suspected that not many people will want to do it and will most definitely not be forced. The worker said that as a CIS man he is privileged and should understand gender rights better . He asked what she meant by CIS and she said that he was not a trans man , he stated he was a man and she has went away , told other staff that he is anti-trans and also emailed HR.
To say he is pissed off is an understatement but he now expects to have to explain himself at work. He has said to me that surely he gets to decide what how he describes himself and i agree. Can anything happen to him?

Wonder what these 'gender rights' are that he's supposed to understand better.

Girl can wear a daft badge with pronouns on and the rest of the workforce can carry on not giving a flying fuck about gender ideology.

Sorry to hear about your DP's experience, goingback. It certainly was unpleasant and completely unreasonable for that part-time employee to report him for this.

He did not do anything wrong there. He sounds reasonable and measured in his response, and absolutely no one has to accept having identity labels foisted upon them - in the workplace no less - if that is not how he or she identifies.

Whether something might happen depends on what's going on at his workplace, but I would hope not.

First of all, if he hasn't done this already, ask him to write down his recollection of the conversation. In as much detail as he can remember. The longer you wait with writing or recording something like this, the fuzzier the details get.

Don't send this to anyone though, this is for his own records. If he is officially asked to respond to the complaint, follow his employer's procedure to the letter. Document every meeting and phone call, preferably by recording it (openly). If that is not permitted, ask him to take notes or minutes or ask for someone to accompany him or listen in as a witness. Then summarise what was said in an email, send it to the complaints handler and ask them to correct any mistakes he might have made in summing up. This is a technique to use when people try to avoid having any written record of what was said, so they can deny it afterwards. Having this kind of email trail makes it easier to provide evidence later (if that is needed).

This might not be necessary and he probably knows all this already, but just in case this goes further, it's a way to protect himself. HR can sometimes be bamboozled by hyperbolic complaints like this and anxious to do the right thing, lest they be accused of a ~phobia themselves, they may reprimand an employee when that isn't warranted.

And if that was me, I would have an explanation ready as to why I do not identify as cis (implies a belief in this ideology, implies an acceptance of all the sex stereotypes and sex role stereotypes associated with one's sex etc) and why no staff should be labelling colleagues in this manner. This is a belief system, and just as with any faith, I would reject being labelled against my wishes in accordance with the tenets of their faith (such as calling a non-believer an infidel or a heretic). It's simply not respectful.

Jesus. Who gave that little POS a job?

This is exactly why my boss discards CVS with pronouns in them.
It's not worth the headache

I think that's silly and not right tbh.

For loads of workplaces it's the done thing. For some young people I suppose it's standard.

And was going to say more but hold on. Cv norm is to avoid anything like that. Name only surely. Sex/ age/ title etc not there. Has that changed,?

O still think that's wrong though. Really bad tbh.

Transactivism certainly seems to bring out super-aggressive attitudes in some people. I can’t imagine ever talking to a manager like that, and especially not when I was still a student.

I hope HR gives it all the attention it deserves.

OP do you have legal cover with your household insurance? They usually have a 24/7 help line and can give advice about managing any HR "meetings".
I gave this advice to another poster with a not dissimilar problem and arriving fully armed meant her workplace quickly backed down.

I just couldn’t have imagined this happening when I was a student 30 years ago. Students would know to respect their superiors. I hope your dh will be treated with respect by HR. What constitutes gross misconduct? The student has started a smear campaign by slandering your dh. Is that not gross misconduct? I would get legal advice on this.

My husband once helped a female colleague move some heavy boxes
She reported him to HR for being sexist stating that she didn’t need help and the only reason why he did it was because he didn’t think she was strong enough as a woman, this resulted in him getting a written warning

@Shannonz a friend who works in a public leisure area (similar to but not the national trust) is dealing with a complaint from a disabled lady. They were expecting her and all provisions for her mobility scooter were in place, but guides kept asking her if she was OK and had everything she needed.
She felt insulted and "othered" and was embarrassed by the attention.

Apologies for the derail

She made a suggested change to the uniform.
Your husband said "Not likely to happen".
She proceeded to slander him to other staff and puts it in writing to HR in an apparent attempt to create a hostile work environment for the manager who controls her rostered hours?

How active is HR generally in dealing with staff complaints?
@CharlieParley has some excellent points on how to deal with a HR investigating her complaint. I would look for an employment specialist solicitor if he is worried that HR will act against him.

His biggest potential issue with the staff members complaint will be if she claims to be a transman and wants to be called he/they etc. and uses this to bolster whatever claims she made to HR.

Is he the only manager in the store?
A careful call to HR for guidance on who should explain the anti-bullying policy to her may not go amiss.
Point out that ongoing gossiping based on slander is a form of harassment of him by her.
Plus if HR are likely to launch an investigation on her complaint he should point out that Christmas trading will lead to roster changes and he would prefer not be controlling her hours etc without HR guidance as it opens a door for her to claim retaliation.

Effective HR management work to protect the company from the employees and to minimise the cost (financial, reputation etc.) which arise from having staff so ask HR to provide a shadow manager to act as a witness for the company.

While the body camera was OTT make sure that your partner knows where the shops CCTV are and where possible gives instruction in front of witnesses.
Document everything because it's likely she will too.

What CharlieParley said. He's done nothing wrong and I cannot see how any HR dept could say he had.

He replied that he didn't know but suspected that not many people will want to do it and will most definitely not be forced. The worker said that as a CIS man he is privileged and should understand gender rights better . He asked what she meant by CIS and she said that he was not a trans man , he stated he was a man and she has went away , told other staff that he is anti-trans and also emailed HR.

I would suggest he speaks to a union rep if he has one, or a legal helpline if you have one with your insurance. Or maybe you have a union with a legal helpline that he could use.
I'd advise him to put the conversation in writing, send it to HR and say that he feels worried about dealing with this person. I'd also get him to say that if the company don't have a problem with they/them putting pronouns on their badge, neither does he but that he doesn't want it for himself and doubts other staff will feel comfortable, particularly as they might not be out as trans etc themselves.
Basically if this person is determined to have a certain name badge, it probably isn't worth fighting, but that it would be unfair to expect everyone else to have to do so, in the same way not everyone would want to put their religion or nationality on their name badge.

And then all the previous advice about documenting conversations and making sure there are no 121 conversations with this individual that could be misrepresented in future.

Many posters here are so eloquent and probably better than me at this but I would

1. Say that I didn’t identify as CIS and that I felt misgendered and that this (and the accusations) made me feel unsafe.

2. Say that I was very concerned about other members of staff feeling the same and that introducing pronoun badges could be outing for people.

3. Say that I was open to discussing pronoun badges on an individual bases if this was very important to any employee.

4. Say that the accuser had misrepresented what I had said, made me feel unsafe and that this was disruptive to the business. Also say that I was concerned that this would happen again and cause further disruptions. Under these circumstances, it may be helpful if the student person was reassigned to another shop, having a shadow manager to witness all interactions or having all interactions in writing.

5. take notes and confirm as PP above suggested

Student weekend staff?

Your DP needs to be confident and to tell his line manager that this need to be nipped in the bud immediately before the company gets embroiled in further ridiculousness.

And everything @CharlieParley said!

@HeatingOnHeatingOff

I hate stuff like this. The world has gone mad with all this popularity of trans talk etc.

Agreed

@goingback

dP is a retail manager and yesterday one of his student weekend staff asked if the company will follow M&S and allow staff to show their pronouns . He replied that he didn't know but suspected that not many people will want to do it and will most definitely not be forced. The worker said that as a CIS man he is privileged and should understand gender rights better . He asked what she meant by CIS and she said that he was not a trans man , he stated he was a man and she has went away , told other staff that he is anti-trans and also emailed HR. To say he is pissed off is an understatement but he now expects to have to explain himself at work. He has said to me that surely he gets to decide what how he describes himself and i agree. Can anything happen to him?

Hopefully HR will take the first opportunity to get rid of the virtue signally shit stirrer whistleblower. That's what I'd do.

I would be tempted to say that he felt uncomfortable she assumed to know his preferred pronouns and gender identity by labelling him a cis man out of the blue. God this shit is tiring.

@skintasabint

This is exactly why my boss discards CVS with pronouns in them. It's not worth the headache

I this is just one of the many things wrong with pronouns. It announces your political ideology up front. Might as well add which political party you voted for on your CV! We have only one member of staff who currently adds her pronouns and I've already heard a discussion of people taking about it and not in a good way. She's a lovely person btw.

Perhaps we should just go back(?) to calling people "they"?

I often say for example "I saw Sue & they told me..."

Perhaps it's an incorrect way of speaking, but at least I'm not assuming that Sue is she & wants to be known as she!

@skintasabint

This is exactly why my boss discards CVS with pronouns in them. It's not worth the headache

I can understand why and would do the same tbh. OP I hope nothing comes of it for your husband, it's getting ridiculous.

HR need to have a chat with her an explain that transphobia, like racism, is a very serious allegation and not one that should be made to multiple people with no evidence.

Agree with the advice to write everything down, but actually I’d be getting in touch with HR myself and saying you need help because this member of staff is slandering him in his own store and an independent person needs to step in.

Is he the store manager? If not, the store manager could be having a word

@dropthevipers

Given (presumeably) he is well established in his career with a track record of not being a git then a "he said, she said" stand off with the work experience kid should only have one outcome. If I were him though I might seriously consider getting a bodycam to avoid misconstruction of any further encounters.

I support OPs DH against the staff member making allegations but strongly disagree with this post.

1- the staff member is not a "kid" - they are presumably at least 16, although I would assume 18 plus if they are a "student" - old enough to get married, have a job and pay NI. Feminists complain about calling women "girls" being degrading, and infantilisating someone to discredit them is exactly the same

2- they are not "the work experience kid" - they are a fully employed part time staff member with the same pay, duties and responsibilities as anyone else carrying out their role. The reason for them working part time (being a student) no less invalidates their right to full employment rights than someone working part time because they are disabled, or have young children or other caring responsibilities. Again, feminists have been very vocal and fought for years for part time workers (very often women) to have the same rights and opportunities as full time workers - including the right to express their opinions and make complaints without worrying they will be sacked for them.

3- the expectation that HR/senior management will (and worse, should) automatically side with the older, male, manager over the younger, part time, general worker is really, really not something we want to be encouraging!!!

This is why the FWR board has so many issues. The antagonism against trans issues has gone so far it seems to overwhelm everything else, and posters seem happy to invalidate all other women's rights we've been working for for years (centuries!) the second it comes to siding against trans rights supporters.

You can strongly disagree with both the opinions and actions of the staff member (as, to be clear, I do) without insulting, misrepresenting, and patronising them.

Transactivism certainly seems to bring out super-aggressive attitudes in some people. I can’t imagine ever talking to a manager like that, and especially not when I was still a student

I’ve seen how young adults become aggressive in their righteous indignation about ‘gender’. Indeed I’ve seen how many young adults increasingly seem to feel entitled to express their opinions more widely in the workplace in general.

It now occurs to me to wonder if part of the appeal in so fervently taking up this rallying call to arms in the gender wars is the sense of power springing from a belief in the moral superiority of their position. A heady mix of righteousness and passion and anger.

I can see that would be so appealing to the young. Both from feeling passionately right about their position, but also which simultaneously is recognised as a means to gain more power and influence in the workplace. Doing so without having to rely on the slow slog of gaining expertise in doing a job.

Just to clarify, I’m not talking specifically in relation to this student weekend staff or assuming their motivations, but ruminating or extrapolating more broadly in relation to AnyOld’s comment. The things that I hear from young staff and young family members astound me.