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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The de-radicalization of an anti-trans activist

153 replies

malloo · 19/11/2021 07:20

rabble.ca/lgbtiq/the-de-radicalization-of-an-anti-trans-activist/

This is interesting, some hints and tips for anyone looking for a route out of being part of extremist gender critical hate groups Grin. Worth reading the whole thing but below are a few excerpts.

This nascent anti-trans movement is known as “Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminism” (or “TERF”) to its opponents and some neutral observers. To its proponents, however, the movement is more commonly described as “gender critical feminism”: a euphemistic rebranding of trans-exclusionary politics that tries to pass it off as something more respectable and enlightened than it is.For my part, I will use “gender critical” here to emphasize that, no matter what name it goes by, the movement is transphobic to its core.

Already, gender critical feminism has its apostates: people who initially participated in anti-trans activism, sometimes intensively, but have since desisted.

These “ex-gender criticals” are rarely profiled. De-transitioners (people who begin but later stop gender transitioning, sometimes becoming anti-trans activists themselves) figure much more prominently in the media discourse on transgender rights.

(So-called gender criticals themselves are to thank for this. They like to bandy de-transitioners around as proof that trans people’s experiences of their gender is not “real”; that trans-affirming medical care is too easy to access; and, that people can, in the end, be rescued from “transgenderism.”)

The relative absence of ex-gender criticals from the public consciousness does a disservice to trans people and our allies.

Trans-inclusive feminists have much to learn from the experiences of ex-GCers. For one thing, the trans-exclusionary movement is not nearly as solid as it might appear from the outside. It is possible for even hardcore members to join the cause of trans inclusion.

.........

The making of a transphobe
It was the fallout from trans woman Jessica Yaniv’s unsuccessful campaign to force aestheticians to wax her genitalia that set Alicia Hendley on the path to radicalization.

She still considered herself a trans ally in January 2019 when she connected with Morgane Oger, then the vice president of the B.C. New Democratic Party. Allegations were circulating that Yaniv had engaged in predatory behaviour online: in at least one instance, targeting a twelve-year-old girl for sexual harassment. Hendley, a sexual assault survivor herself, was concerned.

Oger suggested she try to identify some of Yaniv’s other alleged victims. So Hendley reached out to Irish transphobe Graham Linehan.

True, she and the gender criticals on Twitter had not gotten along in the past. “I saw them as transphobic and bigoted,” Hendley explained to me. “The GCers disliked me, and I disliked them. A lot of insults were tossed about.”

But the gender criticals were the ones talking about Yaniv the most — to their mind, Yaniv’s behaviour confirmed their worst fears about trans women to be true. Surely, then, a gender critical as prominent as Linehan could connect Hendley with the right people.

The road to hatred isn’t necessarily paved with hatred. It wasn’t for Hendley, whose descent into the bowels of anti-trans activism was as much a trauma response as anything else.

Linehan referred her to others in the gender-critical movement, and Hendley quickly found common ground.

The GCers speculated that Yaniv might not be a trans woman at all, just a man abusing gender self-identification to prey on vulnerable (cis) women and girls. Hendley found this possibility terrifying.

Perhaps the man who assaulted her could do this, too. Perhaps he could do this to victimize her daughter.

Radicalization is a highly personal and individual process. That is one of the reasons it is so difficult to combat. But it often flows from the unsatisfied needs that lead people to seek fulfillment in extremist movements and ideologies in the first place. There could be a need to heal from some earlier trauma, for example, and to feel safe from further victimization.

The transphobic, erroneous claim that permitting gender self-identification exposes women and girls to male violence stoked Hendley’s fears. Joining the gender criticals in their crusade against the rights of trans women in turn gave her a way to resolve them.
.........
Pandemic school closures meant Hendley’s children were at home much more than before. Her focus turned to providing them with the all-day supervision and care they required. Protecting “sex-based rights” began to seem less urgent.

She picked up a new hobby, learning German, and found she would rather spend her free time on that.
.....
“We were one group-think,” Hendley explained to me. “An echo chamber, a hive mind, with our mission to be ‘protecting the sex-based rights of girls and women’ (that meant cis).”

It’s wrong — and more than a little counterproductive — to assume that the people who join, or even found, hate groups do so because they lack intelligence. Hendley herself holds a doctorate in clinical psychology from the University of Windsor.
.......
Rather than argue ad nauseum that trans exclusion is anti-feminist and contrary to Canadian values, trans women and our allies ought, instead, to mobilize ex-GCers like Hendley to combat transphobic hate. Whatever such people have done in the past, they are in a unique position now to pull others out of the gender-critical movement. That makes them invaluable allies.

Recruiting ex-GCers requires, of course, knowing that these Formers exist in the first place.

“I will forever be cognizant of the harm I caused,” she told me recently, “by initiating the creation of caWsbar (not to mention my subsequent involvement). That’s on me, and no one else.”

But it is not too late for her — or any of the increasing number of ex-GCers out there — to make amends.

OP posts:
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 22/09/2023 18:46

It's on the list of forbidden words.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 22/09/2023 18:50

NotTerfNorCis · 20/09/2023 21:43

Alicia seems to have forgotten she helped found caWsbar.

In 2020, I left @cawsbar, a fear-based "gender critical" group. Today I was 1 of 100s in #Guelph, standing against ignorance & hate, to protect rights of trans kids & promote accurate sex ed. We were peaceful, united, & strong. We'll never be silenced. #TransRightsAreHumanRights.

They like to pretend no one leaves, but we do. Just had to make my own exit door!

https://twitter.com/maggie_xer/status/1704520838374953169?t=v5B8QI8T-wI344TzzUXDpQ&s=19

Haha! Clicked the link & found that one's already blocked.

Interesting in the X replies that someone describes being GC as 'going down the rabbit hole' - the other side constantly use our phrases. I've seen a few instances recently where they just swap e.g. 'women' & 'trans' in one of our sayings, & it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense once they've done that but they still Sharpie it onto a piece of cardboard & hold it up in the street.

twelly · 22/09/2023 18:50

The post implies that people are misguided and deranged to have GC views - well I think the opposite.

MargotBamborough · 22/09/2023 18:54

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 22/09/2023 18:46

It's on the list of forbidden words.

I've just re-read the talk guidelines about Sex and Gender. Can't find a list of banned words. Is this an official or an unofficial list?

All I can see in the rules is that we shouldn't say trans identifying male and that there are very few circumstances in which it is OK to mention autogynephilia.

If the term "to peak" is banned then it would be helpful for that to be mentioned in the rules.

MargotBamborough · 22/09/2023 18:57

twelly · 22/09/2023 18:50

The post implies that people are misguided and deranged to have GC views - well I think the opposite.

It's unclear what they think we are deranged and misguided about. Not believing that humans can change sex? Fine, show me one human who has actually changed sex and I'll change my mind. Not believing in gender identities? Explain what one actually is in a way that makes sense and maybe I'll think differently.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 22/09/2023 19:25

MargotBamborough · 22/09/2023 18:54

I've just re-read the talk guidelines about Sex and Gender. Can't find a list of banned words. Is this an official or an unofficial list?

All I can see in the rules is that we shouldn't say trans identifying male and that there are very few circumstances in which it is OK to mention autogynephilia.

If the term "to peak" is banned then it would be helpful for that to be mentioned in the rules.

The MNHQ policy is that they have a list of banned words, but they do not publish the list because it would encourage people to work around the list. They said that.

Instead, we are to figure out what words are on the list through a process of trial and error, by posting as normal and seeing what gets a deletion/email from MNHQ. I call it needlessly hostile towards newcomers to the board.

And yes, I have already been emailed about that word before.

MargotBamborough · 22/09/2023 19:33

That's...unhelpful.

Did they say what their objection to the word is?

Froodwithatowel · 22/09/2023 19:33

twelly · 22/09/2023 18:50

The post implies that people are misguided and deranged to have GC views - well I think the opposite.

Who would think that women are misguided and deranged to feel they should have equality with men? And that should not revolve their perceptions and stated reality around whatever a man tells them to?

That would be incels and really far end misogynists, wouldn't it?

itsmyp4rty · 22/09/2023 19:34

Goodness that sounds like a whole lot of mansplaining right there.

MargotBamborough · 22/09/2023 19:36

The idea that we couldn't possibly have come to the conclusion that we should be allowed to have a word for ourselves and some spaces and sports for ourselves which do not include members of the opposite sex without being radicalised by the far right is really quite extraordinary.

Waitwhat23 · 22/09/2023 20:05

MargotBamborough · 22/09/2023 18:54

I've just re-read the talk guidelines about Sex and Gender. Can't find a list of banned words. Is this an official or an unofficial list?

All I can see in the rules is that we shouldn't say trans identifying male and that there are very few circumstances in which it is OK to mention autogynephilia.

If the term "to peak" is banned then it would be helpful for that to be mentioned in the rules.

I've had a post deleted for using peak before.

The words bundle and bundles are also banned (amusingly)

WhiteFire · 22/09/2023 20:07

MargotBamborough · 22/09/2023 19:33

That's...unhelpful.

Did they say what their objection to the word is?

Just part of the ever shifting goal posts and how bad the hurty feelings are that day.

MargotBamborough · 22/09/2023 20:11

Waitwhat23 · 22/09/2023 20:05

I've had a post deleted for using peak before.

The words bundle and bundles are also banned (amusingly)

Huh? What does bundle even mean in a sex and gender context?

Waitwhat23 · 22/09/2023 20:16

MargotBamborough · 22/09/2023 20:11

Huh? What does bundle even mean in a sex and gender context?

A male barrister with very thin skin doesn't like the word mentioned -

www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/garden-court-must-pay-20k-over-unreasonable-conduct-in-allison-bailey-case/5116606.article

In all fairness, he was only tangentially involved in the preparation of the bundles but he really doesn't like the word mentioned.

MargotBamborough · 22/09/2023 20:19

WhiteFire · 22/09/2023 20:07

Just part of the ever shifting goal posts and how bad the hurty feelings are that day.

The thing is that at some point they're either going to have to ban discussion of the topic or they're going to have to accept that there will be some hurty feelings and that's just tough.

This is really clear when you see the list of words considered "hate speech" or "transphobic dog whistles" by batshit organisations like Stonewall and Bristol City Council which include things like "adult human female" and "biological female".

It's not about the words themselves. What they are trying to stop is the discussion of the concept.

I might not be allowed to use the word that begins with P and rhymes with leaked, but I am still sometimes going to want to refer to the, er, straw that broke the camel's back in terms of someone deciding that all this gender identity stuff has gone too far.

MargotBamborough · 22/09/2023 20:24

Waitwhat23 · 22/09/2023 20:16

A male barrister with very thin skin doesn't like the word mentioned -

www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/garden-court-must-pay-20k-over-unreasonable-conduct-in-allison-bailey-case/5116606.article

In all fairness, he was only tangentially involved in the preparation of the bundles but he really doesn't like the word mentioned.

We aren't allowed to mention legal bundles, are you serious????

😮

How on earth can talking about bundles be deemed transphobic?

Even if, hypothetically, the person who was responsible for the bundles happened to be on Mumsnet, and happened to be trans, and was upset by the discussion about the bundles and reported it to MNHQ, what rule would have been broken exactly?

ifIwerenotanandroid · 22/09/2023 20:27

Slight tangent, but are we allowed to say if we think a post is AI-generated? I started a thread & had 3 posts from the same poster that screamed AI to me, but I didn't know if that was viewed as you-know-what hunting.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 22/09/2023 20:32

Also, yesterday I saw a user name of something-MrHochhauser, & it took me a while to remember who Mr Hochhauser was - & when I did I got quite misty-eyed.

Froodwithatowel · 22/09/2023 20:36

MargotBamborough · 22/09/2023 19:36

The idea that we couldn't possibly have come to the conclusion that we should be allowed to have a word for ourselves and some spaces and sports for ourselves which do not include members of the opposite sex without being radicalised by the far right is really quite extraordinary.

Interesting, isn't it?

A few things this political lobby have often shown evidence of thinking:

  • Everything women think and do is always about men.

  • This is generally based on a belief that women are walking man-resources and nothing happens in their heads or lives other than thinking about men and doing things for/with/to men. I mean, what else is there? There can't possibly be any relevant world inside a woman's head that isn't about men in some way, it's not like they're real humans.

  • Therefore women disobeying men have to either be doing it because some other man told them to, (obviously some evil right wing Machiavellian force) or purely because they want to upset and annoy men.

  • This is why lesbians who won't do men are sources of such desire to destroy. What's the point of them existing if they aren't being useful to men? And women wanting sport of their own - what's that about? Why? Why on earth would they be so difficult when obviously their sports is pointless and meaningless and not serving any use, but could be such a source of joy and validation to men? And why on earth the fuss about their beliefs, and faiths and feelings when they just need to get their damn clothes off in front of which ever man states they wish this to validate their personal reality, because his feelings are very hurt when they don't just do what he wants.

Failure to launch comes to mind a whole lot. And red pills.

MargotBamborough · 22/09/2023 20:40

Froodwithatowel · 22/09/2023 20:36

Interesting, isn't it?

A few things this political lobby have often shown evidence of thinking:

  • Everything women think and do is always about men.

  • This is generally based on a belief that women are walking man-resources and nothing happens in their heads or lives other than thinking about men and doing things for/with/to men. I mean, what else is there? There can't possibly be any relevant world inside a woman's head that isn't about men in some way, it's not like they're real humans.

  • Therefore women disobeying men have to either be doing it because some other man told them to, (obviously some evil right wing Machiavellian force) or purely because they want to upset and annoy men.

  • This is why lesbians who won't do men are sources of such desire to destroy. What's the point of them existing if they aren't being useful to men? And women wanting sport of their own - what's that about? Why? Why on earth would they be so difficult when obviously their sports is pointless and meaningless and not serving any use, but could be such a source of joy and validation to men? And why on earth the fuss about their beliefs, and faiths and feelings when they just need to get their damn clothes off in front of which ever man states they wish this to validate their personal reality, because his feelings are very hurt when they don't just do what he wants.

Failure to launch comes to mind a whole lot. And red pills.

And yet the people who say this generally identify as feminists.

Which makes it even more bizarre.

Waitwhat23 · 22/09/2023 20:41

MargotBamborough · 22/09/2023 20:24

We aren't allowed to mention legal bundles, are you serious????

😮

How on earth can talking about bundles be deemed transphobic?

Even if, hypothetically, the person who was responsible for the bundles happened to be on Mumsnet, and happened to be trans, and was upset by the discussion about the bundles and reported it to MNHQ, what rule would have been broken exactly?

🤷🏻‍♀️ goading, I suppose?

But given that the same male barrister is representing Brighton & Hope Rape Crisis in the (ongoing) I am Sarah case and came onto a thread which was specifically to give Sarah emotional support to 'correct misinformation' (which must have broken any number of professional guidelines) I think many of us think he's got a fucking cheek.

HagoftheNorth · 22/09/2023 20:43

Gave rise to the poster Moirassoggybundles if I remember correctly - wonder if that username got terminated?!

MargotBamborough · 22/09/2023 20:44

Waitwhat23 · 22/09/2023 20:41

🤷🏻‍♀️ goading, I suppose?

But given that the same male barrister is representing Brighton & Hope Rape Crisis in the (ongoing) I am Sarah case and came onto a thread which was specifically to give Sarah emotional support to 'correct misinformation' (which must have broken any number of professional guidelines) I think many of us think he's got a fucking cheek.

Did anyone report that barrister to the Bar Standards Council?

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 22/09/2023 20:47

MargotBamborough · 22/09/2023 19:33

That's...unhelpful.

Did they say what their objection to the word is?

I'll see if I can find the email later. I cannot remember why at all.

Waitwhat23 · 22/09/2023 20:51

MargotBamborough · 22/09/2023 20:44

Did anyone report that barrister to the Bar Standards Council?

The link to complain was posted a couple of times on that thread and I think several posters did complain.

The thread is linked on here -

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/glinners-twitter-cdb

One positive outcome of the unprofessional intrusion was a rush of gardening to Sarah's crowdfunder. Another was that the barrister in question backed off from the boards until very recently.