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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Harrop MPTS thread 2

999 replies

Personwithrage · 18/11/2021 11:20

Starting the new thread

OP posts:
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FlyingOink · 24/11/2021 22:09

Though the ruling in respect of Witness D is less damning than Witness E, the fact remains Witness D was not an impressive witness either. Consider that these rulings were made without Harrop’s legal team having to cross-examine any of the witnesses, it becomes apparent that the GMC case on the intimidation issue was fundamentally week.

I disagree. The witnesses weren't on trial. I think the failure to prove certain points might have something to do with the combative nature of twitter discourse and lots of other irrelevant detail in the history with certain witnesses.

But the nature of a twitter battle is that it is public. And regardless of whatever any of the witnesses may or may not have done, a GMC registered doctor (who made a big deal about being a GMC registered doctor) was having a nasty bunfight in public, despite having been told off by numerous superiors who he ignored, because he thought he was right.

Massive questions about self-control and personal judgment. It doesn't matter who the argument was with, and what any of those people are like.

And regardless of whether every single complaint made was ill-founded, baseless or exaggerated, Harrop's online behaviour (which is something that doesn't form part of his work but is rather an ill-advised, extremely public hobby) led to a flurry of complaints.

There's little to suggest his behaviour in future will be less likely to result in complaints from the public, he has shown poor judgement re the Vice article and the weirdly positioned pin badges, and his defence was at least partially "she made me do it and I can't help myself".

Cailleach1 · 24/11/2021 22:09

@iklboo

I wonder if the lads on the panel diminished the severity and impact of AH's actions because his main targets have been women?

Has it been confirmed the panel is all male?

Reading the tweets. I thought Nicholas Flanagan (Barrister, Cobden House Chambers) was the Chair (presumed bloke). Then the two (presumed blokes) other tribunal members were:- (i)Mr Gulzar (Ghulam) Mufti MBBS, MS, MCh, FRCSE, and (ii)Dr Vivek Sen MBBS, FRCP, FRCPath .

It says here that the MPTS appoint 3 tribunal members to each tribunal

www.mpts-uk.org/hearings-and-decisions/who-makes-the-decisions

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong. Also, I apologise if the aforementioned identify as a he/her/furry and I had the thoughtless temerity to call them lads rather than lassies.

BoreOfWhabylon · 24/11/2021 22:10

I hope MNHQ lock this thread overnight to prevent goady visitors attempting to get the thread pulled.

FlyingOink · 24/11/2021 22:10

@Artichokeleaves

I would continue to think that the lack of response to all previous warnings, the article in the middle of the tribunal, and that regardless of who said what to whom a GP got himself repeatedly involved with multiple inappropriate (proven) misogynist (proven) communications and behaved in a way not really professionally appropriate at all for someone in a position of such serious responsibility, trust and supposed good judgement, is a pretty significant problem.

But I suppose we shall see.

That's not even a cross post, I just took too long to write what you have just said much more succinctly. Blush
RedDogsBeg · 24/11/2021 22:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Refers to deleted post

Ekofisk · 24/11/2021 22:15

Strangely enough, I just read the gist of that post on Twitter.

BreadInCaptivity · 24/11/2021 22:16

@JennerOfKensington

There's a lot to unpick there and frankly I'm not sure I can be bothered because I'm pretty sure you're posting in bad faith.

Your post misrepresents the panel's conclusions and it's rationale multiple times.

Whether that's hopeful speculation or a lack of comprehension of the process/failure to read the detail, I cannot fathom.

Yes, the panel found in favour today over the majority of disputed charges, however you fail to acknowledge that these are far less in number than those that were admitted/proven.

The proven charges are serious. You can't view them as inconsequential.

It remains to be seen what the panel will conclude re: fitness to practice/sanctions, but I disagree that this will be a cake walk for AH as you seem to believe.

RedDogsBeg · 24/11/2021 22:16

@Ekofisk

Strangely enough, I just read the gist of that post on Twitter.
What a surprise.
Motorina · 24/11/2021 22:18

I just wanted to add a note on consequences. We are a long way off the formal sanction stage but, whatever it is, it is routine for, any time you apply for a job in the NHS, for the application to ask about your fitness to practice history.

I have what, if I were more organised, I would call a 'portfolio career'. As is I'm just really tired and have a lot of migraines around tax time. But one thing I've done a bit is NHS recruitment/interviewing.

When we've had a candidate declare a FTP history, the first thing we've asked for is a copy of the determination and any reviews. We take that into account when deciding whether that candidate is a goer.

Imagine you're a potential employer, and you're reading the commentary around those 'not proven' charges. How do you feel about making an offer to this candidate?

JennerOfKensington · 24/11/2021 22:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Refers to deleted post

JennerOfKensington · 24/11/2021 22:22

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Refers to deleted post

MonsignorMirth · 24/11/2021 22:25

[quote Motorina]Stage one determination posted by tribunaltweets as a single document, which is much easier to parse than photos across numerous tweets:

docs.google.com/document/d/1hdrlN9Q813qdHyMWxb0hpZvD9WHPl1bL/edit?rtpof=true&sd=true[/quote]
Can anyone confirm whether clicking on a google doc when you're logged in to Google displays or records your google name anywhere?

BreadInCaptivity · 24/11/2021 22:38

I was quoting from a public and formal judicial ruling in a competent tribunal

You didn't quote anything other than one word.

You misrepresented the findings of the panel today on several fronts.

You might not like the judgment but who cares? It is a public judgment and what you think is irrelevant. The censorship on this forum is disgusting. Witness E is being permitted to attack Dr Harrop unchallenged. Her comments are defamatory and what she accused Dr Harrop of has been dismissed by the Tribual. Those are the judicially decided facts.

Where exactly has it been judicially decided that E's comments were defamatory?

This was a tribunal: GMC vs AH.

It was not a defamation case between AH and E.

You're yet again misrepresenting facts and misusing terminology.

FlissMumsnet · 24/11/2021 22:39

Thanks to everyone who has reported this thread to us tonight - we're hoping to keep it alive so have had to suspend all new posts overnight to prevent the debate being derailed.

MonsignorMirth · 24/11/2021 22:39

Witness E is being permitted to attack Dr Harrop unchallenged.

A good deal of this thread was specifically about challenging what Witness E had said. I assume you didn't read it (or you are deliberately misrepresenting this).
And - again - the Tribunal was not there to rule on Witness E's statements.
You seem incredibly confused by all this, and it's not helping any sort of sensible discussion.

Redshoeblueshoe · 25/11/2021 10:00

So they are going to question a female doctor this morning

Ekofisk · 25/11/2021 10:02

Dr Diane Exley.

@tribunaltweets is live Tweeting.

BlackandGreen · 25/11/2021 10:04

Stepping across the muddy puddle here.

Back on course.

Redshoe is the female doctor a witness?

BlackandGreen · 25/11/2021 10:05

Ah, sorry, got it, cross posted. Thanks.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 25/11/2021 10:07

She's a witness for AH by the looks of it. A colleague.

Redshoeblueshoe · 25/11/2021 10:08

Muddy puddle is spot on.

SpindlesWhorl · 25/11/2021 10:09

Dr Diane Exley is a colleague?

PronounssheRa · 25/11/2021 10:11

@SpindlesWhorl

Dr Diane Exley is a colleague?
Yes, works at the same GP practice
Redshoeblueshoe · 25/11/2021 10:11

So is she going to say it's all banter ?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 25/11/2021 10:12

Yep

central.brownlowhealth.co.uk/staff/

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