Harrop MPTS thread 2

[Personwithrage]

Starting the new thread

So that's it? No more evidence? AH's lawyer has been allowed to say loads of (in my view) incrimination and insulting things about various witnesses and they don't get to answer or explain or put their point of view across?

It's all a bit dissatisfactory.

Oh, I get it, "faggot" is not an common offensive term in Glasgow, but is in America.

Whereas "cunt" is a term of endearment in Glasgow, and widely applicable.

Thanks, I understand now.

@Nasturs

I think Harrop is a twat, and am as gender critical as the next person - but I think that 'a faggot is a bunch of sticks, or a meat pattie' comes across as a little disingenuous. Yes, it is those things, and it is also a slur used against gay people, and in the context it was used I think the person on the Clapham omnibus would raise an eyebrow at the faux innocence expressed here.

I don't live in Clapham.

If I say that I would be far more likely to use a word in a different way than you, that is what I mean.

Nothing disingenuous about that. I'd guess that many people in the UK would see the word in the same context as me.

As one who buys faggots for burning and eating on a regular basis I am only peripherally aware of its homophobic use.

I know it is but round here, southwest, anyone shouting for faggots would be fed or supplied with firewood.

@Fariha31

Even I know faggot is an old word for a bundle of firewood, as well as midlands meetballs.

We are British people who live in Britain. Faggot has never been an inslult here, at any time for anyone.

I do think there is currently an obsession with American culture, note the use of the word 'Feds', which is just cringy really.

Your second paragraph and third are saying different things. There certainly is significant creeping Americanisation, to the extent that British people who have been more exposed to it will have more awareness of the American usage. Generally in British and Irish English there are multiple meanings of the word fag and faggot.

I'm exceedingly anti Harrop, FWIW, check my previous posts, but the poster who said the Clapham omnibus test is a bit more complicated in this instance than some of you are allowing for here was correct. One doesn't have to like creeping US cultural hegemony to understand that it exists. I also think it shouldn't actually matter as E is not the subject of this hearing.

@TurquoiseBaubles

So that's it? No more evidence? AH's lawyer has been allowed to say loads of (in my view) incrimination and insulting things about various witnesses and they don't get to answer or explain or put their point of view across?

It's all a bit dissatisfactory.

Very much so!

Perhaps HoardingSamphireSaurus you might want to word your next order very carefully because according to some comments the supplier could misunderstand and deliver a gang of homosexuals to your house.

One doesn't have to like creeping US cultural hegemony to understand that it exists.
Particularly if one is deeply involved in debate around genderism and queer theory, imported also from the US and with many major contributors being American.

I also think it shouldn't actually matter as E is not the subject of this hearing

And also this.

@TurquoiseBaubles

So that's it? No more evidence? AH's lawyer has been allowed to say loads of (in my view) incrimination and insulting things about various witnesses and they don't get to answer or explain or put their point of view across?

It's all a bit dissatisfactory.

This, entirely.

I would feel so let down by the GMC in her shoes, in fact I do already.

@BaronessWrongCrowdRex

In the UK, faggot Isn’t an insult nor slur. It is never been used in that way. To me a faggot is a bundle of sticks or a large meatball type thing that either comes in a sauce from Mr Brains or you get in a butcher wrapped in the stomach membrane of a sheep/cow pig.

Oh it definitely has been used in that way. I’ve had to crack down on kids I’ve heard using it, and the first association my brain makes with the word is the slur.

In the context of the tweet it’s referring to the bundles of sticks and not as an insult. Still, I think I’d have baulked at using it myself even in that context.

Come on, no-one even Haddock actually thought the tweeter was suggesting she would be burned at the stake on a mound of burning homosexuals, did they now.

final tweets were:

The Adrian Harrop Tribunal
@tribunaltweets
Chair: the tribunal now needs to go and make a decision privately. At that point we need to distill that I to a document and that takes time. We'll then go to a process with a committee and how we arrived at that. The earliest day is midday on Wednesday.
It's likely that day will move and if you'll be so kind to provide contacts if we think it's Thurs or Fri we will inform you.
GP: is there a possibility of it being earlier
Chairman: no
Chair: of you cantget here maybe you can be here by other means. We will make sure sufficient time to arrive. We're not going to tell you to be here immediately.
GP: clarifies again won't be earlier
Chair says no and thanks to everyone.

The Adrian Harrop Tribunal
@tribunaltweets
Thank you for tuning in this week and we thank you for all your messages of support and thanks. It really is much appreciated. From myself and the team have a lovely weekend. VM

---------

💐Thank you to the team behind @tribunaltweets ❤️

My mother used to use the word faggot. As in, 'you little faggot'. Kind of like 'you cheeky pup' meaning, but more affectionate. She was a native Irish speaker (as in Gaeilge -akin Gaelic, not hiberno English). English learned at school. My parents were not young when they had me, so maybe archaic usages were involved.

Faggot has absolutely been used as an insult here lol, it was used all the time when I was at school, it obviously means cigarette too but words can mean more than one thing and language naturally evolves all the time

@Cailleach1

My mother used to use the word faggot. As in, 'you little faggot'. Kind of like 'you cheeky pup' meaning, but more affectionate. She was a native Irish speaker (as in Gaeilge -akin Gaelic, not hiberno English). English learned at school. My parents were not young when they had me, so maybe archaic usages were involved.

I used to hear it in my childhood used by old Irish people but as an insult, like lazy or generally shit. Not for a while though.

"Faggot" means cigarette? Perhaps E was talking about a witch being burned on a pyre of cigarettes? Although that would be terribly unhealthy.

I’ve heard of fagging at school... you fagged for the big boys...

@Keke94LND

Faggot has absolutely been used as an insult here lol, it was used all the time when I was at school, it obviously means cigarette too but words can mean more than one thing and language naturally evolves all the time

It also has meanings that were actually relevant to the content of the tweet.

@nauticant

Perhaps HoardingSamphireSaurus you might want to word your next order very carefully because according to some comments the supplier could misunderstand and deliver a gang of homosexuals to your house.

I have made myself a PostIt! note to that effect 🙂

Perhaps E was talking about a witch being burned on a pyre of cigarettes? Although that would be terribly unhealthy.

You've reminded me of this sassy witch!

I don't find the image of a woman being burned to death amusing.

@EgoSumFeminaNaturalis

I don't find the image of a woman being burned to death amusing.

Think the idea is she is a witch so isn't burning.

What am I missing? There are no such things as wickety witches - so any woman (or man, because there certainly were male witches executed too) who was put to the fire was burned to death.

It depends how it's done. One thing I'm even more convinced of is the value of humour in countering authoritarianism.

@Nasturs

I think Harrop is a twat, and am as gender critical as the next person - but I think that 'a faggot is a bunch of sticks, or a meat pattie' comes across as a little disingenuous. Yes, it is those things, and it is also a slur used against gay people, and in the context it was used I think the person on the Clapham omnibus would raise an eyebrow at the faux innocence expressed here.

See, I don't get this. The link posted by TheBlackDarner above to the Oxford English Dictionary lists, in order of common usage in British English, 17 meanings for the noun, in a total of 11 grouped meanings.

The first relates to a bundle, most commonly in the sense of bundle of sticks for burning. (The main entry also tells us this word isn't in frequent use, whatever its intended meaning.) It then moves on to the noun being used in the context of the burning of heretics. Those are the first two main meanings.

Which is how E used the word, as a word for the wood used in the burning of heretics. Which was the tweet in question - referring to women opposing self-id being burned at the stake like witches.

You have to skip past the meanings listed by pp - after firewood and heretics, that's as a word for food (two types), then derogatory, especially for a woman, usually in combination with lazy or old, then for a cheeky child. And only after all of that do we get to entry 14 out of 17, a derogatory American slang for a gay man.

Why would you insist that E must have intended the word as that latter meaning? Especially when the context was being burned at the stake? The man on the Clapham bus would be raising an eyebrow, yes, because there's some hyperbole about being burned at the stake. But the use of the word faggot would not have raised any, especially not in that context.