gender neutral toilets

[amazeandastonish]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this.

My work are doing a poll (not anonymised) asking how we feel about introducing gender neutral toilets.

I don't want them but I also don't want to make my views known unless anonymised. So I think the majority of results will be scewed towards on side of the debate over others.

Would all toilets be gender neutral?

I think one Important is to consistently refer to them as mixed sex toilets

Yes. Mixed sex. Do your colleagues want that?

All toilets are gender neutral - no-one cares what you're wearing (gender presentation), how you are addressed (gendered pronouns), or what your hobbies and interests are (gender stereotypes) when you want to spend a penny. The only thing that matters is your sex, so that appropriate facilities are provided, and for dignity and privacy.

Is there an option to say you would support a gender neutral toilet in addition to the single sex ones, but not replacing them?

Yep, refer to them as mixed sex toilets and stress that they will need full length cubicles and doors, plus sinks in each cubicle.

Do you feel able to say that? That by carrying out this survey in a public way they may be preventing honest replies. Most people are fairly inhibited about their toilet use and may not want to be identified in their responses regardless of views.

Many women who have experienced menstrual flooding or miscarriage at work may not feel able to say so in a public survey

You don't need to do this from a personal view. But if you do submit anonymously I'd make the point that

• you are having to do so anonymously because political diversity is becoming a serious problem in many workplaces and employees have to fear sharing other needs, issues and equality of access than the TQ centric ones. Chilling effect etc.

• Great to create some gender neutral ones if this may help the diversity/equality of access of the workforce, however equality of access should be considered for ALL employees and all nine characteristics of the EA, not just TQ employees. This will require single sex female toilets to remain in addition to gender neutral, plus the number of these and accessibility/positioning of these should be as equally considered in proportion to the number of female staff and where they are located in the building.

• Obviously female staff cannot be expected to disclose highly sensitive personal information in order to justify or request female only toilet provision, 'outing' them is an issue too. Plus does the workplace continue to provide a diverse welcome to all females or is it going to be discriminatory and exclusionary towards some now? The gender neutral facilities have to be provided alongside single sex, no questions asked, or this causes serious problems that may get the workplace into legal bother.

• Laws/regulations about provision - check these. Probably should not base advice on this serious issue from a political lobby with a specific political agenda now widely known to have misrepresented law and increasingly being named as controversial because sueing gets really expensive.

Can you make a point about heavy periods and how uncomfortable you would be with men in the cubicle next to you?

Or that you wash your moon cup in the sink and state that this feels like a bit TMI for your male colleagues?

Artichoke’s post is brilliant, go for that! if you can. I would only add a point about Muslim women who may need to adjust their hijabs in a single sex space.

Send them an anonymous letter, marked private so it's more likely the upper management will get it without it going missing. Say that you want sex segregated toilets but are afraid of being open because knowledge of who wants what could be used against employees if it gets into the hands of the wrong people in future. Urge them to conduct an anonymous survey on SurveyMonkey or something, and if they don't, it's very unlikely they'll get truthful responses.

I think it's very positive that they're doing this poll, but yes, I can totally understand why people would be scared - it would be a perfect opportunity for someone to identify people who they'd like to manage out of the company. It really isn't safe, employment wise, to conduct a non-anonymous survey about this. Most companies know that employees won't do any poll or survey about pay, hours, what they think of management and a whole list of other things.....let alone something like this!

I agree with others to point out that toilets are SEX segregated, not gender segregated as women and men have different bodily functions, for one thing.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but women's toilets are far more likely to be made gender neutral, whilst all the men's toilets remain the same. Funny that, isn't it? That is not an acceptable solution either and I would state that because if the poll results are mixed, I can bet that this will be their go-to 'solution' for it. It's important to provide a push-back before they even think of it.

Some really good points here, thank you

I would be honest and say that you aren’t comfortable with all toilets becoming mixed sex. I would. I would also say I don’t mind if some became ‘for anyone’ toilets as long as that didn’t take away just from provision for women only loos.

Personally, I don’t care I’d a transwoman uses our female toilets but I would care if my male colleagues started using them.

I had an episode of extreme flooding when peri-menopausal and visiting some other offices. A very nice woman helped me to clean up in the ladies loos. I would have been mortified if a man had walked in. I dont think people think about situations like this. They just think it's going for a wee.

@logsonlogsoff

Personally, I don’t care I’d a transwoman uses our female toilets but I would care if my male colleagues started using them.

But if you wanted to be factually correct here, your trans woman colleague is in fact a male colleague.

I would send them a link to the legal requirements of mixed sex toilets and state that as long as they fully comply with the regulations I would be content. My personal preference is male toilets and female toilets, then if they wanted to add a mixed sex facility on top, fine, but as long as any mixed sex toilets met the regulations I would accept this.

Are these toilets individual rooms or multi entrance toilet blocks sharing washing facilities , if the latter they won't fulfill building regs.

Should also point out ,that to provide properly equipped single entry mixed sex toilets, will be very expensive.

Can you make a point about heavy periods and how uncomfortable you would be with men in the cubicle next to you?

They shouldn’t be just cubicles if they’re gender neutral.
They should be floor to ceiling units with sinks. And san bins.

Most people I know including me would prefer those anyway, but there also needs to be very strong messaging about respecting others and keeping them clean. Where I’ve seen them in some places for staff they’re fine. But if they’re public toilets they do get more messy if they’re mixed.

I post this on these ‘loo’ threads so often that I ought to have a standard post- apologies if you have seen a variation of this before.
Obviously this only applies to the standard cubicle toilet situation:

The reason for the gaps on toilet doors is:

1. Cleaning is easier and more hygienic as grot isn’t stuck against the door
2. Smells can dissipate

But more importantly

1. Safety - dodgy stuff (sex and drugs) are less likely to happen

And most importantly

1. When people feel ill they go to the loo. Miscarriages, seizures, heart attacks. If you are collapsed behind a toilet door, someone will see your leg/feet. I know because some friends and I saved someone in a nightclub who was unconscious and vomiting.
2. In the event of a fire, it is easy and quick to do a sweep of the toilets. How long do knock on the locked toilet door when a fire alarm is going off?

So basically lots of reasons you need toilet door gaps for public toilets and single sex toilets.

Just to add: In schools the statistic that one rape a day on average happens in schools shocked me. Where on earth do these happen? I would anticipate gender neutral toilets could create more spaces.

I don’t think you should be afraid of speaking up. It’s absolutely fine to not want all your looks to go mix sex - I’m sure there are plenty of men who would also prefer to have separate provision.

We have mixed sex toilets at work, it’s a pub so this is for the public as well as staff.

They are vile. Yes they have floor to ceiling doors but you can still hear other people and I’m sorry but I don’t want strange men hearing me use the loo.

You then have a shared sink which is just fucking awkward tbh. And yes, on occasion I have found myself needing to wash period blood off my fingers in front of a male customer (peri and flooding).

@logsonlogsoff

Personally, I don’t care I’d a transwoman uses our female toilets but I would care if my male colleagues started using them.

That's the same thing.

I suspect your work will simply change the door sign on the female loos to mixed sex and leave the men's as is.