Is doctor obliged to tell patient about new gender before visit? NYTimes says no.

[PrincessNutella]

Okay Mumsnetters, real headscratcher here. What do you all think. Woman is planning to go to new doctor who is a man. But now she hears through the grapevine that new doctor has become a trans woman. She wonders, should patients be told before the visit, or just show up and find out that Dr. John is now Dr. Jane? www.nytimes.com/2021/11/09/magazine/difficult-mother-in-law-ethics.html

I can’t read the article but I think in the case of a woman expecting to see a male doctor, that’s not necessarily a problem. If they were expecting someone of the same sex for an intimate examination (for example) that is an issue. So a woman wanting a female doctor but not being told her doctor is actually a trans woman, potentially with a penis.

If I was happy to go to a Dr that was a man but is now a transwoman it would make no difference to me as they are still male.

If I wanted a female Dr and the Dr I was sent was a male then I would have a problem with that.

Surely the reverse is true then - a man wanting/expecting to see a male doctor may want to know that Dr john is now Dr Jane?

If I was expecting a male doctor and then came to my appointment without being informed that he was now presenting as a woman I would feel a little bit uncomfortable because of cognitive dissonance and having to play along with his self identification. I would do this a a matter of politeness but it is an additional stress which may not be fair when I am dealing with my own medical issues.

If I was seeing a male doctor I would be fine with a transwoman doctor. If it’s something I’m happy to talk to a man about I don’t mind if the doctor is male or female or what their gender presentation is.

If think it's less of an issue for existing patients than it would be for new females ones who think Dr Jane is the same sex as them.

However, there are a number of issues around it tor existing patients.

1. Is he presenting as female or is the idea that he's actually a woman? If The latter, then I'd be looking for an alternative provider. If medical services don't understand the most basic of biology then I'd be concerned about their decisions on my "care".

1. His presentation would very much be an issue. So many adult males who transition imitate a type of female stereotype.

1. The medical assistants and admin team around him: would they now be policing his pronouns on his behalf? If a patient refers to him as male, will they be corrected?

1. It's awkward: does he truly believe he's female now, or does he think being female is basically adherence to a stereotype. I would find it difficult to be often with a dr about my medical issues relating to womanhood in any way, if I sensed the dr thought I was going through "human problems" with my biological womanhood being a mere "identity", or choice of some sort. And if he thought that biology is real then would referring to him as male be a problem?

It basically tips the entire appointment into him and reduces the focus on the patient, even if he's genuinely not wanting that to happen. It's an inevitability in the current climate especially.

No I wouldn't expect to be told.

I'd he slightly on the watch for odd advice or signs of emotional change in him. My GP is a truly lovely man with what i would regard as a slightly challenging marriage so I'd be worried that he had a lot going on that might affect his ability to do his job. But I think I'd mainly just carry on. After all, what has actually changed?

Wearing different clothes doesn't change someone's medical qualifications, so if I were expecting to see a biologically male doctor anyway, I don't see why I would need to be told what they're wearing beforehand.

If they'd been struck off or were being investigated for malpractice or something, then I'd expect to be told that beforehand, as that would be material.

That said, I can't access the article so don't know the exact circs.

Well according to the advice given, it's transphobic to even think about the situation really, and as ever, gender is no different to ethnicity, race or sexuality.

You have no right to feel uncomfortable or ask any questions, and forget the "first do no harm" approach, your doctor does not need to think about you at all:

"You can play a small part in our important social transition from transphobia toward trans acceptance by sparing her from having to answer such questions for the umpteenth time. It’s no more incumbent on her to inquire after your comfort level with her identity than it would be for a physician who is Jewish or gay or Black (or all three) to do so. Her gender expression has no bearing on her capacities as a doctor."

A doctor I’ve seen before and am therefore aware of the sex of? No I don’t care about that.

If I call and ask for a female doctor for a particular appointment for whatever reason (which I’ve never done but can still appreciate all the reasons why people do) then I’d expect to be given a female dr.

I sort of agree with some of that. It makes no difference to me what religion, ethnicity etc my doctor is. How a doctor chooses to present themselves also makes no real difference to me most of the time. I really don’t care what the person looking in my ears and prescribing antibiotics is wearing or how they choose to identify.

At times it does matter to me whether my doctor is a man or a woman, and whether they are a trans woman would make a difference whether or not I was comfortable there. Many, many patients want a doctor of the same sex for certain examinations or very personal consultations and if they’re requesting that, they ought to be told.

Can't read article but this would seem to me a deliberate attempt to obfuscate the real problem of a patient being presented with a male doctor when expecting a female doctor. As everyone knows the rejection of a male doctor by a female patient is not at all the same as her rejecting a female doctor who is a member of a minority group.

@daretodenim

If think it's less of an issue for existing patients than it would be for new females ones who think Dr Jane is the same sex as them.

However, there are a number of issues around it tor existing patients.

1. Is he presenting as female or is the idea that he's actually a woman? If The latter, then I'd be looking for an alternative provider. If medical services don't understand the most basic of biology then I'd be concerned about their decisions on my "care".

1. His presentation would very much be an issue. So many adult males who transition imitate a type of female stereotype.

1. The medical assistants and admin team around him: would they now be policing his pronouns on his behalf? If a patient refers to him as male, will they be corrected?

1. It's awkward: does he truly believe he's female now, or does he think being female is basically adherence to a stereotype. I would find it difficult to be often with a dr about my medical issues relating to womanhood in any way, if I sensed the dr thought I was going through "human problems" with my biological womanhood being a mere "identity", or choice of some sort. And if he thought that biology is real then would referring to him as male be a problem?

It basically tips the entire appointment into him and reduces the focus on the patient, even if he's genuinely not wanting that to happen. It's an inevitability in the current climate especially.

100% this. Dr Kamilla Karrudin has spoken of how they didn’t tell female patients who didn’t know before that they were a TW & how pleased they were that female patients allowed them to examine them.

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/sep/11/meet-the-trans-key-workers-treating-teaching-and-serving-the-uk

Oops, sorry, I forgot the article was beyond a paywall! This is the question:

"I switched medical practices pre-Covid and was assigned to a male practitioner. My first appointment is coming up, and today I learned from a friend who also uses that medical practice that my doctor has transitioned (or is transitioning) from male to female. Since I have not yet met this doctor, I am wondering about what is appropriate and whether there should be any conversation about the transition. Is there any reason that the doctor should speak about it, even if it is to determine whether I, a cis woman, am comfortable seeing a trans physician?

If my friend was not a patient at this practice and had not forewarned me, I would have been confused to see a female enter the exam room, because I would have been expecting a male doctor. Is this transition process such a private thing that it is inappropriate to talk about it? Obviously, I am in uncharted waters."

Classic motte and bailey doctrine, innit?

Motte: You expect to see male doctor because their sex doesn't matter, you see a transwoman doctor, it'd be wrong to complain.

Bailey: You expect to see a female doctor because their sex is relevant, you see a transwoman doctor, it'd be wrong to complain.

Is there any reason that the doctor should speak about it, even if it is to determine whether I, a cis woman, am comfortable seeing a trans physician?

Why would someone who's not trans have an issue seeing a trans doctor if the doctor's biological sex is irrelevant to the issue?

Bizarre that a non-trans person would expect to be informed that a person is trans in this scenario - it's like a patient feeling the need to know a doctor's religion or marital status.

I think it would depend on the context,

If the doctor was my cardiologist then I would probably ignore the elephant in the room and keep it professional, no problem.

However if the doctor was my gynaecologist I'd be pretty pissed off, due to cognitive dissonance and biological reality reasons pp have described, and I'd be seeking referral to a different gynaecologist (male or female) who knew for sure what a female was.

Honestly I wouldn’t be able to trust medical advice from a doctor who thinks you can change sex. So yes if my doctor was trans I’d change doctor and would prefer to be notified in advance to avoid wasting both of our time.

It depends.

If I were taking a relative with one of the dementias to see a doctor with whom they're familiar, I wouldn't want that considerable a change without some forewarning. It can be difficult enough for some of my relatives if one of us cuts our hair and they don't recognise us. They react with confusion, distress, and can be physical.

I'd expect context, prior familiarity and relationship to be important. I'd be sorry if a family doctor (no access to article) hadn't thought that through from the patient/carer perspective.

If he really believed he had changed sex I wouldn't have any faith in him as a doctor. Knowledge of biology is fundamental to medicine.

Honestly I wouldn’t be able to trust medical advice from a doctor who thinks you can change sex

None of the trans people I know actually think this - they're all fully aware they have a female/male body despite not identifying as female/male.

I think Stonewall and the extremists have done such a disservice to the average trans person who is fully aware of their biology and of how science works.

Stonewall and the other extremists, i meant..

Bizarre that a non-trans person would expect to be informed that a person is trans in this scenario - it's like a patient feeling the need to know a doctor's religion or marital status.

It’s not in the least like that. Religion and marital status are unimportant. I would be uncomfortable with a doctor who thinks humans can change sex.

I would be uncomfortable with a doctor who thinks humans can change sex — or who centres his ‘gender identity’ in a professional setting.

@LonginesPrime

Honestly I wouldn’t be able to trust medical advice from a doctor who thinks you can change sex

None of the trans people I know actually think this - they're all fully aware they have a female/male body despite not identifying as female/male.

I think Stonewall and the extremists have done such a disservice to the average trans person who is fully aware of their biology and of how science works.

And many here have been shouting that for eyars. The world seems to be chatching up with us now.

Stories like this are the upshot of the TRA agitations - their actions have caused the reactions they have long decried. Direct cause and effect. Doubtless we GC women will get the blame for this too when actually it is the natural consequence for demanding people accept the lies and obfuscation of 'gender choices'.

As you say @LonginesPrime, none of the trans individuals I know have ever thought they had changed sex.