Stonewall?

[N00tN00t]

I am writing an assignment for college, I have chosen to write about stonewall in businesses. It is a both sides argument essay, and I have been trying to research the effects of stonewall in businesses and companies.

When I started a couple of months ago, there was a lot of websites for both sides, but now when I type anything into Google, it is only coming back with stonewall the website, the history of stonewall or ways to sign up and become a diversity champion. ALL of it is the 'good side' argument. Does anyone know what has happened? I know when I started there was a lot of other results from many different points of view. Can anyone give me some places to go so I can do a balanced assignment?

@N00tN00t

It would be great if I could reference mumsnet discussions which have links in them etc. I might look into that. I'm not sure whether it could be considered a reasonable source for this purpose, though.

You could, if you referred to us as 'social commentary' and that would allow you to draw from Twitter too, to illustrate the polemic across some Social Media platforms, and your own balance!

I had to have a look. There is a little bit in 2017 eg
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3069102-Stonewall-really-are-throwing-women-udner-the-bus-arent-they-sad

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/academics_corner/3055290-Stonewall-survey

But things really get underway in 2018

It's HE business management. I was thinking of referencing specific pages with links in them. Mainly because references aren't included in the word count and I want to get as much info in as possible.

Don't use google as your search engine! It's very very easy for organisations to decide which links are returned first due to the way the google algorithm works. Duck duck go is apparently much better.

Sorry cross posted with others who said the same thing

Not sure if anyone has already said this but try using different search engines. Duckduckgo or ecosia usually give different results to google

It is a bit alarming that the Google results have changed recently though.

Yes, but that's to be expected.

use issues with stonewall in business and you get the results you might expect.

You're right, it did bring up different results. Although, still not the ones I had previously. More of a mix, though, so that's good.

The Stonewall SEO bods must be hard at work

One thing i would encourage you to include is the imbalance that having a lobbying giant like SW in the EDI mix is. There is no equivalent for other protected characteristics, so inclusivity at work has become almost by default about the alphabet soup people.

There is much less focus on disability for example, or religion for that matter.

Employers get to tick the 'I'm inclusive' box by doing lots of stuff that costs nothing (gender neutral toilets, pronouns on e mails, celebrate Pride week) etc. They then dodge stuff like implementing real flexible working, providing specialist equipment that would enable some disabled people to work and having fully accessible buildings that would make a real tangible difference, but takes cold hard cash.

legalfeminist.org.uk/2021/02/01/submission-and-compliance/

This might be of help - discusses the business risks of working with Stonewall - written by a lawyer.

@N00tN00t

I did start listening to the podcast, I'll go back to it, thanks. By other side, I mean the effects that stonewall have had on women's rights/safety and the safeguarding of children. It really confused me because I know the websites were there! Now it seems like there has been a blackout on anything that shows anything negative. I have decided to start my 'for' argument first, since that's the only thing I can find at the moment.

Transgender trend and safe schools alliance

Plenty of info on stonewall resources breaching d of e guidance/equality act and harming women & girls rights there

Stonewall themselves have plenty of incriminating info on their own site. It’s written they oppose single sex exemptions in the equality act, they opposed rape by deception claus, they redefined homosexual as same gender attracted, just look at their definitions of what a girl or woman is. Nancy Kelly in the bbc article saying homosexuality is a societal prejudice. Stonewall employee gave talks on how to break through the cotton ceiling. Stonewall are pro puberty blockers. And maliciously represent the equality act as having gender instead of sex in the protected characteristic.

Their own site is evidence of harms against women children and lesbians.

To be fair, as a business model, Stonewall is a thing of beauty.

But the effects of this business model on equality and culture is negative and regressive.

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

I'm not suggesting *@purpleboy* is a bad faith poster, honest , but maybe start a thread with your key findings instead.

I am sure many here would like to read that!

Defo not bad faith, feel free to check my posting history

I'm just really interested in the end result, as op has to be unbiased, which is something I struggle with when it comes to stonewall, I'm wondering if it could throw up some points that challenge my thinking.

Baroness Emma Nicholson's webinars have been very good and have had a range of professional people presenting. Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson said something along the lines of if the same amount of money had been spent addressing issues for disabled people as has been spent on Stonewall's influence and gender ideology, there would be few problems left for disabled people.

And the Beeb has just announced its withdrawal from Stonewall schemes and index too.

@purpleboy We have a had a few very bad faith posters recently, asking for off board/additional contacts. It seems to have made my spidey senses tingle more readily.

I really wasn't suggesting you were one of them! But I'd like to read OPs work too!

Sorry if this is really obvious but have you tried searching with a different search engine? Different ones might use different algorithms to Google that changes what results you get back?

The Mail, which is free to access, has been good at reporting Stonewall stories, albeit often copied from scoops by the Times and others. For me Google seems to boost the Guardian and deboost the Mail. To get round this search by: Mailonline Stonewall. This will throw up a host of news articles.

(Actually it is interesting just how many articles, covering all sorts of organisations, this search throws up. Indication that a tide is turning.)

One other angle from a business point of view is how it can skew impartiality in the media. For example, Ben Hunter did nothing for the BBC's reputation before he left because he failed to be impartial.

[quote HoardingSamphireSaurus]@purpleboy We have a had a few very bad faith posters recently, asking for off board/additional contacts. It seems to have made my spidey senses tingle more readily.

I really wasn't suggesting you were one of them! But I'd like to read OPs work too![/quote]
I understand the need for caution on this board. We see it all to often.

The fact that Nicola Sturgeon and Keir Starmer recently felt the need to do grovelling YouTube videos addressed to the trans community.
Okay political parties are not strictly business but when local councils buy in services they specify standards such as compliance with what Stonewall wants which has led to Rape Crisis centres which centre biological women losing funding.
Maybe to win a 'painting and decorating' contract you have to sign up as a Stonewall employer? All just so corrupt.

I'm happy to share it with you when it is done, @purpleboy although it is going to be the first proper assignment I have ever written, left school at 15 and finally back in education in my 30s. So I'm not promising it will be good

OP, please check your Uni's regulations and plagiarism rules, etc before sharing any of your academic work with anyone outside of your course.

Its natural that posters are going to be interested, but if they haven't studied in the last few years, they might not appreciate the rules around sharing information, anti-plagiarism software, essay sites, etc so likely won't appreciate the risk you'd be taking in circulating work before you have your final qualification awarded.

One of the (many) risks you take is that if someone else (not necessarily that poster, but anyone who sees it) thinks your work is worth sharing and it ends up online somewhere (possibly with good intentions), you could end up being accused of plagiarism yourself (even later in the course if your work is called into question), and the first question you will be asked is why would you share your assessed HE work with others outside the course?

By all means write something else to share with people using the same source material, but I strongly advise you to check your course regulations before sharing anything you're using for your actual course work.

It's HE business management

Depending on how you're framing your question, I would also check out the corporate social responsibility/diversity pages of the organisations working with Stonewall - both their customer pages and their recruitment pages, plus the bumpf around CSR in their annual reports for publicly listed companies, etc.

In addition to reading the annual Stonewall Workplace Equality Index Report (on SW's website), which gives info about what orgs are doing, the CSR info can help to frame the business drivers for subscribing to Stonewall and it's index in the first place.