Stonewall?

[N00tN00t]

I am writing an assignment for college, I have chosen to write about stonewall in businesses. It is a both sides argument essay, and I have been trying to research the effects of stonewall in businesses and companies.

When I started a couple of months ago, there was a lot of websites for both sides, but now when I type anything into Google, it is only coming back with stonewall the website, the history of stonewall or ways to sign up and become a diversity champion. ALL of it is the 'good side' argument. Does anyone know what has happened? I know when I started there was a lot of other results from many different points of view. Can anyone give me some places to go so I can do a balanced assignment?

Noot noot! I love saying that.

You probably have plenty to use now but I second the recommendation of trying another search engine such as duckduckgo.

*being sued

And don't forget the wishy washy term used by various government departments - it's not value for money!

You could in fact make an interesting point about lack of Google positive searches? Afterall, Google is a business first and foremost.

It doesn't have to sound like a conspiracy theory, just a sentence?

@N00tN00t

You've all given me more to work with than Google has in the last 48 hours 😄

I'm the oldest in the class by about 14 years so it was one of those, do I, dont I? We all had to say what we've chosen as our topic, yesterday. I only mentioned one of the 2 I had planned. My tutor asked if I wanted to say what the other one was... took a deep breath and mumbled 'stonewall' they ALL wanted to talk about it and none of them had anything good to say about how things have turned out. They're 19-23. I was really, really surprised! The best thing was, my tutor was fully on board and encouraged the discussion.

Now I just need to write an amazing assignment! I really appreciate all of your suggestions here ❤

All the best for your assignment, OP! It’s really heartening to hear the way your classmates reacted to the topic!

You've all been amazing, thank you. I got those results searching just stonewall and clicking on news, but still not getting the results you would expect when searching the damage of stonewall in businesses. I remember SSA, terfisaslur and a few others showing up before. They're not even 3 pages in anymore.

I have loads to work on now, thanks to all of you. I'll get cracking on them this morning!

I'm not sure why I'm not getting the results I was a month or 2 ago, I haven't done anything to offset the algorithm. I searched this morning and it was 2 whole pages of different sections to stonewall website and words I my search crossed out in some results. It was just weird, to be honest.

Google results are very obviously TRA-skewed in the sex+gender area, with dissenting resources downranked. What you were seeing was probably the result of manual intervention (either by Google or external people manipulating the results) to get new pages downranked.

DuckDuckGo is much better. With searches like "sex is a spectrum" or "gender statistics" I get a mixture of results on the first page from both viewpoints.

I'm assuming that a "balanced" essay means you examine the claims and evidence on each side impartially and even-handedly, but that the conclusion should be determined by the evidence on each side, rather than you having to "sit on the fence"?

Sounds really interesting op. I'd be really up for reading it when you've finished if you didn't mind sharing?

The disappearance of negative perspectives from search engines is part of the whole picture, isn't it?

@ahagwearsapointybonnet

I'm assuming that a "balanced" essay means you examine the claims and evidence on each side impartially and even-handedly, but that the conclusion should be determined by the evidence on each side, rather than you having to "sit on the fence"?

That would depend upon the essay title and end result OP has set for herself.

The conclusion could simply be that the current situation remains in flux, hotly contended!

Last month’s news on the FCA, SW and the proposed definition of women as relates to composition of company board members would be relevant here.

Kind of, except the conclusion still needs to be third person and unbiased. I'm happy to share it with you when it is done, @purpleboy although it is going to be the first proper assignment I have ever written, left school at 15 and finally back in education in my 30s. So I'm not promising it will be good 😬

I'm not suggesting @purpleboy is a bad faith poster, honest , but maybe start a thread with your key findings instead.

I am sure many here would like to read that!

It would be great if I could reference mumsnet discussions which have links in them etc. I might look into that. I'm not sure whether it could be considered a reasonable source for this purpose, though.

The fca consultation is a good one from a business perspective, as it will basically require all fca regulated companies to count transwomen as women for all gender quotas if they go ahead with their proposal- stealth law!

Unbiased evidence can still point firmly in one direction.

I don't know what your subject is, but imo (someone who has taught in HE in the humanities) mumsnet discussions could be a source if you use them for what they are. For example they could illustrate that there has been discussions on social media and Internet forums for longer than its been reported in the media, or that this forum has been a key site of discussion if that was a point you wanted to make. But I don't think they can be a sauce for factual information given in posts (sorry everyone). You can use advanced search to find key words in thread titles on this board (tick feminism sex & gender discussions). It would be interesting to know when fwr first started talking about stonewall.

@N00tN00t

I understand that *@Babdoc* but it does have to be a balanced essay. I spoke to my tutor yesterday as I was a bit worried about writing on it, but he was really keen for me to do it. He said it would be his first assignment submitted on it and he was really interested in the little bit of detail I went into. So now I'm trying to write something that gets the message across without it being biased one way.

You've got to remember that there is zero scientific basis for gender identity ideology and that until very recently it did not exist. It is very cult like and was probably about keeping Stonewall in a job once gay marriage had become a reality.

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

And don't forget the wishy washy term used by various government departments - it's not value for money!

Showing their fear...ridiculous for the elected Government.

They have been accepted as 'experts' across the board of equalities when they really just represent the T.

Politicians have referenced Mumsnet in Parliament before now. I think using MN as a source, mentioning it is perfectly suitable.

Stonewall's submission to the GRA consultation, their comments about how single sex services are actually single 'gender' and should include people who do not have a GRC are at the bottom of page 7;

''61. Under the Equality Act 2010, the protected characteristic of ‘gender reassignment’ ensures most trans people can access single-sex services in line with their gender, and are not required to obtain a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC), or have undergone any form of medical intervention, to be eligible for support in these services.''
committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/17743/pdf/

The Equality Act uses 'sex' when they mean biological sex. Single sex services are legal in several situations, including;
''they may be used by more than one person and a woman might object to the presence of a man (or vice versa)''
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/20/7/4/1

I loved when I read things like 'they ALL wanted to talk about it and none of them had anything good to say about how things have turned out. They're 19-23. ' . Thank you for sharing, it all seems so negative sometimes and that the damage is well and truly done. I was watching a Netflix drama, Guilty. and at the end, there are gender neutral toilets where the sinks were in a row and the stalls were open at the top and the bottom.. it felt like this brainwashing was everywhere.. I am so pleased to read that your colleagues are open to hearing the risks associated with the erasure of sex based protections for women and the damage that is done by entrenching stereotypes rather than seeking to erase them instead.