Men and women will keep their separate toilets under Government plans

[Fluffymule]

Has this been shared today? Had a quick scroll through earlier posts but couldn't see it.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10148817/Men-women-separate-toilets-plans-away-gender-neutral-loos.html

"in a blow to transgender lobbyists, The Mail on Sunday has learnt that public toilets and office spaces would be required to keep separate loos as standard but can also provide another 'safe space' for those who want it."

Surely the third space option was always the obvious answer?

Well this is good news.

Although tiresome that we keep having to fight the same old battles.

But small hurrah anyway.

This bit from the article is important - "A YouGov poll this summer found that fewer than one in 20 women supported the replacement of men's and women's lavatories with gender-neutral ones"

in a blow to transgender lobbyists, The Mail on Sunday has learnt that public toilets and office spaces would be required to keep separate loos as standard but can also provide another 'safe space' for those who want it."
So, safe spaces for all who need them. Where is the "blow", exactly? Ffs!

Yes, but what's a woman and what's a man?

Good.
That's what happens when someone actually asks women what we want. The vast majority of women say no to sharing loos with unknown males .

A blow only to those whose trans identity is so precarious as to depend entirely on the affirmation of others. A huge boon to those who get real distress from being in the space allocated to their sex rather than their gender.

@TurquoiseBaubles

Yes, but what's a woman and what's a man?

Well, with self ID off the table hopefully we'll actually be allowed to object to obvious males in the Ladies? Or am I being hopelessly naive? Probably

Exactly. Have mixed loos and changing rooms as well.

Great news men don't want their urinal provision taken away by mixed sex toilets anyway. Good result for everyone.

But a 3rd space doesn't affirm or validate there identity so is hateful or atleast that's what usually gets screamed at anyone who suggests it

@Hoardasurass

But a 3rd space doesn't affirm or validate there identity so is hateful or atleast that's what usually gets screamed at anyone who suggests it

Tough shit. We're not there to validate anyone when we're in the fecking loo.

@GreyhoundG1rl I think selfID is very much still on in Scotland - unless I've misunderstood.

I suppose it means that we can at least challenge men in women's toilets without being carted off for HateThink (as long as self-ID stays shelved).

But:

What about Scotland?

What about prisons and refuges?

What about the conversion therapy Trojan Horse trying to sneak the concept of 'gender identity' into yet another piece of shoddy legislation?

Much work to do.

Hope the wording is clear. One comment on DM article is from transwoman saying they'll continue to use the ladies as is their right.

Will this have any implications on changing rooms? Lots of clothing stores currently only offering mixed-sex changing rooms for customers, would they be forced to reinstall single-sex ones?

'A Whitehall source told the MoS: 'For dignity, security, and safety – the proper provision of separate men's and women's toilets is important.

'That's why we are looking at options to ensure separate toilets remain the standard.''

That's a bit of weasel wording in the second paragraph. 'Looking at options' doesn't mean you'll actually pick the best option, or indeed take any action once you've looked at those options.

I'll hang fire on setting off the party poppers for a bit.

@Imnobody4

Hope the wording is clear. One comment on DM article is from transwoman saying they'll continue to use the ladies as is their right.

And I will continue to complain about men with penises in the women's toilets, as is my right.

Doesn't change the Equality Act - trans people are still legally entitled to use the toilet corresponding to their reassigned gender.

No I don't think that is quite correct

Firstly the equality act only covers those with gender recognition certificate. those saying they want one whilst knowing full well they won't get one without self id ( because they don't meet current criteria ) will not be covered by the "in process " aspect

Secondly the equality act allows for pure sex when appropriate and there is a growing body of men who are increasingly prepared to haul out any one with a dick from the ladies

@BlueberryCheezecake

Doesn't change the Equality Act - trans people are still legally entitled to use the toilet corresponding to their reassigned gender.

No.

there is a growing body of men who are increasingly prepared to haul out any one with a dick from the ladies

... and I think that when the blue-haired babies with dicks actually set foot outside the student union bars and student club nights and upset a woman in a city pub toilet somewhere like Portsmouth, that's when MPs like Penny Mordaunt will be really tested on their 'beliefs' by their constituents, when men eject other men from female facilities and expect her to have some common sense about it.

I think this won't make a difference. The TRAs didn't want gender neutral toilets - just access to those matching their gender rather than sex. The only people potentially affected are therefore the NBs who - shock, horror - will have to use a toilet according to their sex.

@BlueberryCheezecake

Doesn't change the Equality Act - trans people are still legally entitled to use the toilet corresponding to their reassigned gender.

That is incorrect.

I don't think this necessarily means the government are intending insisting that toilets are sex segregated, just that places won't be able to turn all their toilets (or just the women's) into "gender neutral" ones as we've been seeing lately.

Keeping male and female toilets may mean toilets are gender (self-ID) segregated rather than sex segregated and without as much leverage to lobby for things like floor to ceiling walls and doors.

It sounds like it would at least mean that things like the Old Vic's misogynistic attempts to marginalise women further by "opening up their toilets to everyone" but still having open urinals in one set would not be acceptable, though.

@Fluffymule

This bit from the article is important - "A YouGov poll this summer found that fewer than one in 20 women supported the replacement of men's and women's lavatories with gender-neutral ones"

No surprises there. That's exactly the same proportions as we get in AIBU polls on the issue before they get moved to the naughty corner.