Wonderful rant by Julie Burchill

[flyingbuttress43]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10148267/JULIE-BURCHILL-Suffragettes-make-M-S-selling-hijabs-four-year-old-girls.html

Yes, I know it's the Mail on Sunday.....

You sound a bit judgy yourself there Kaptain. But without the wit, humour, writing talent, decades long back catalogue of books, stage, and even a magazine launch behind you.

I think your comment about Gwyneth Paltrow was pretty judgey @Wildfart. Not to mention spiteful.

You sound like a Burchill.superfan. Good for you. But I'd like to see you disprove just one of my comments about her. It's weird to.see posters defending someone who has such a long track record of vitriol and bullying. I couldn't care less how big her 'back catalogue' is.

I have no problem with judgey.

Laughing at comedy fashion is fun. It's pretty normal. Far more fun than exaggerated pious humourless sanctimony.

Who could even be bothered to disprove anything you wrote?

Please do not defend her or champion her views. She just makes them up according to her whim

Whatever else you say about Julie, I'm sure that's not true. I'd agree that she sometimes changes her position on something 180 degrees - which she always admits to - but a lot of her positions have been held consistently and passionately for the past 40 years: anti-Islam, pro-Israel, anti-Irish republicanism, pro-feminism.

I think a lot of what she says is nuts. But she says it very entertainingly.

@beatrice14

wild, but the question is, would she have bullied a white woman the same way?

What would make you think she wouldn't have? Not everyone who is bullied is bullied because of some sort of protected identity characteristic.

The most recommended comment by Mitch in Eastbourne which has 4,895 up arrows.
I so agree with everything you have written here....I will definitely be buying your book and have it on my coffee table with pride....what ever happened to freedom of speech and thoughts...I aways thought that if I watched something or read something I disagreed with I could turn off or stop reading.....I had no problem with race, colour or creed...unfortunately due to this crowd bullying I now do have problems with all of the above....the problem I have is that I refuse to be bullied..I stand up to bullies...I bow down to no one...I AM white...I AM heterosexual...I do have a womb so that makes me female and a WOMAN.....AND I don't apologise for the history of my country because I am proud of my country and the heroes who helped make it what it was before this WOKE RUBBISH was allowed like a cancer to take hold...but it hasn't taken hold of ME.....

I must be getting soft in my old age it has actually brought tears to my eyes!

Re the bullying of a white woman, Julie has famously had huge spats with both Camille Paglia and India Knight. Probably others too. And she often makes quite nasty remarks to India Knight on Twitter relating to her (India's) partner's conviction for child sex offences.

After Jill Dando was murdered JB wrote about her - I can't recall the detail any more but I do remember my jaw hitting the floor. Say what you like about her and most of it will probably be true, but I don't think she's ever considered anyone off limits.

Wild, she didn't just criticise her views, she tipped over into bullying and encouraged others to gang up on Sarkar. I don't question that she would have bullied a white woman, but it's possible there was an extra edge to it, even unconsciously, due to Sarkar being from an ethnic minority.

Yusanaim, the bit that says that she won't apologise for the history of her country- what about participation in slavery and colonisation? You can still love and feel proud of your country without being completely uncritical.

@beatrice14

Wild, she didn't just criticise her views, she tipped over into bullying and encouraged others to gang up on Sarkar. I don't question that she would have bullied a white woman, but it's possible there was an extra edge to it, even unconsciously, due to Sarkar being from an ethnic minority.

It's possible there is an extra edge to it because she doesn't like names that start with the first letter of the alphabet.

Accusing people of racism shouldn't be a casual rhetorical trick.

You cried tears of joy because someone said they have problems with “race, colour and creed” because people talk about racism and things like slavery?

Are you all right?

Lots of apologies due?
www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/25/modern-slavery-trafficking-persons-one-in-200

Yes, my grandmother came as a domestic labourer to the UK. Her employer took her papers, trapped her in the house, forced her to work constantly with no time off and raped her. She had no way to complain and no recourse. She told us about her rape at the end of her life. So yes, I know well the impacts of contemporary forms of slavery, especially for descendants of chattel slavery and colonization.

How come every time I post about race on this board like clockwork some person comes by talking about modern day slavery as some kind of gotcha to deny that we are still living out the effects institutionally and personally? Why are you feminists so threatened by women talking about our experiences of racism? Why do you feel the need to deny it? What threatens you about acknowledging it? Does it harm or diminish you in some way?

Again, are you all right?

Beatrice is critical of someone for not apologising for a country participating in slavery.

I wasn't posting that in response to your post Hazelcarbyfan. You are very welcome to ignore that post as it was not a response to your question "are you all right" directed at Yuanaim.

I'm going to ignore you asking me if I'm all right and the claims of denial.

My mil and her entire family were enslaved for many years. Don't assume other posters are not affected.

@Wildfart

You sound a bit judgy yourself there Kaptain. But without the wit, humour, writing talent, decades long back catalogue of books, stage, and even a magazine launch behind you.

Pmsl

Yusanaim. I like the pun.

I absolutely don’t always agree with Julie, who is mad as a box of frogs at times but this article made me laugh. And I’m glad she’s saying this stuff.

I have literally never posted about racism in a thread without someone coming and saying “what about modern day slavery in Africa?”in response, and then usually following it up by repeated bullying to respond. Every single time. It has become harassing at this point, which is why I responded to your post.

I’m very sorry about what happened to your family and how it must continue to affect you. Other people’s stories of atrocity in no way diminish my own nor their histories. As women, we should be able to share our various histories and experiences and learn from them, not try to silence them.

At no point did I say what about Africa.

My question was about apologies. It hasn't stopped and I question the role current generation apologies play in the stopping of it. I work in an educational charity for children, apologies aren't actually the focus or any use. Educating girls is proven to reduce the likelihood of enslavement.

The Mitch in the newspaper comment was actually talking about "woke" and it's impact. People feel silenced by "woke".

Saying you feel silenced by woke and saying you feel silenced if someone says they are silenced by woke are two ends of the same stick.

Neither end is helpful.

Beatrice14 wasn’t posting about institutional apologies - such as the Prime Minister apologizing, though. She was critiquing a random white woman asserting “I won’t apologize for my country!” as if anyone asked her to while also telling us she has now turned against people who aren’t white. beatrice14 nearly pointed out that you could acknowledge the history of your country without being required to not like that country or enjoy living there.

If the topic is whether countries should make apologies, especially unaccompanied by reparation, I agree that it is performative and meaningless. But that wasn’t the topic nor the point beatrice14 was making.

Your post, “lots of apologies due?” with a link to an article about trafficking and labour exploitation was not very clear in context. It read as though you were responding to the mention of the historical reality of chattel slavery by implying “slavery still exists and it’s not in OUR country, is it?” If you want people to follow your argument, a bit more context and explanation is helpful.

Merely, not nearly.

I do love the way she chips away at Owen Jones on Twitter. She's like an indolent lion in the undergrowth, suddenly leaping out with a full-fanged attack.