The silencing of women/girls (lesbians, rape victims CSA) for the “greater good

[BatmansBat]

I am beyond angry this evening.

The BBC article came out about the lesbians who were coerced to sex and I believe raped. TRAs were trying to take it down and Dr Finn even tweeted that she believed the victims but that it shouldn’t be talked about in the open.

Then there was the girl who was raped in the girls’ toilets by the gender fluid boy. The school board tried to quiet this down and denied all knowledge. They had purposely not recorded sexual assaults. But they did pass the transgender policy making it easier for gender fluid boys and trans girls to access the girls’ toilets.

Then there is the democratic candidate in Virginia who has ties to a law firm which is trying to silence girls, victims of gang rape. www.bizpacreview.com/2021/10/27/law-firm-that-employed-mcauliffe-is-fighting-case-against-student-who-says-she-was-gang-raped-at-school-1155036/

We had the grooming gangs in the U.K. The girls were slut shamed and everyone were afraid to appear racist.

And… I was sexually abused by a relative as a young teen. It only happened once as I refused to see him ever again. I was also told to be quiet. People knew. But “it would be so bad for his family”. “Think of his children”.

Why are women and girls so often silenced? Why is it more important not to appear racist or transphobic? Why is the family life of creeps more important than abused girls? Why is the image of the transgender movement more important than the abuse of young lesbian women?

I completely get the whole “innocent until proved guilty”. But when there is no doubt? When everyone knows?

I am so angry and upset this evening. And don’t get me started on “me too” and “believe the victim”. That only appears to apply for very specific victims and very specific perpetrators.

Bat

But the silencing is the same. And the gaslighting is there. You have transwomen drawing dicks on the pavement outside demonstrations. You have transwomen sending dick pictures. You have transwomen twittering “suck my lady dick”. And young women and girls should just be silent for the “good of the trans community”.

NO! This needs to be discussed. Abuse and rape needs to be discussed and talked about. And prevented. There are no sacred castes.

YY, exactly this.

It's shit isn't it? rank hypocrisy of the first order. We should believe women, but...

and I'm sorry for what happened to you OP

Define being 'more vulnerable' : its the inability to have your truth heard, recognised and taken seriously as a problem to be addressed. Its a symptom of a lack of political power or voice within society.

This is what it really looks like in practice.

Where are all the power and well connected lobby groups for women who have been sexually abused / exploited?

Its wilful blindness because there are those who benefit from doing so.

I'm so sorry that happend to you. I understand your anger.

I was pleased to see the BBC defending the article. Also in an article about said defence it stated that they had also received a high number of emails of support. That's something we can all do to try and achieve some kind of balance in the media discussions- write emails/letters in support or complaint; I suspect that the majority of the population think it absurd to accuse someone of bigotry for "genital preferences", or to have male bodied rapists in female prisons or to have biological males in womens sport at the Olympics. But it is the other side of the debate who are more vocal/the loudest (probably because lobby groups like stonewall and mermaids are powerful and have a lot of funding behind them, but there are organisations now moving away from stonewall).

It's always women and girls who have to stay quiet otherwise they'd "bring shame on the family". No, it is the male perpetrators who have brought shame on the family (or church or community) by their actions. No progressive movement should expect women and girls to endure the secondary pain of being silenced to protect the men who have abused them.

@MoltenLasagne

It's always women and girls who have to stay quiet otherwise they'd "bring shame on the family". No, it is the male perpetrators who have brought shame on the family (or church or community) by their actions. No progressive movement should expect women and girls to endure the secondary pain of being silenced to protect the men who have abused them.

It’s also rare that male victims are expected to stay quiet, not unheard of but rare they are silenced the way we are. No one ever claims a man or boy cries rape or questions what he was wearing or if he should have stayed alone after school with the teacher or if he flirted or if he sent mixed messages and so on. When boys or men are abused it tends to be met with outrage no one knows enough about male victims, that there’s not enough support for them and so on.

Good old Finn, who wants to resolve the genders wars. Not a chance in Hell, Finn, you quisling.

NO! This needs to be discussed. Abuse and rape needs to be discussed and talked about. And prevented. There are no sacred castes.

Hear, hear.

You have transwomen sending dick pictures. You have transwomen twittering “suck my lady dick”. And young women and girls should just be silent for the “good of the trans community"

This.

This says that the birthright of being born female is that you must think of others before yourself, and that you must protect other people's interests instead of protecting yourself or enforcing boundaries. Your 'no' must be predicated first on how others may feel about it and what they may need.

Even though those who your care is being demanded for show no reciprocal care to you .

Even though those you must put before yourself have no similar expectations on them and are never asked to think of others at all, never mind before themselves .

Even though the political theory demanding that female people do this, as birthright of having been born female and not having identified out of it, says at the same time that sex doesn't exist and no one should notice it.

All of this is about tying female humans' hands behind their backs and requiring them to enable and be actively helpful in their own subordination. All of this is about the primacy of male people and the duty of female people to serve that cause.

Fuck. That.

Seriously.

An article on the silencing of women in history (content warning, article opens with a large painting depicting St Agnes being tortured)

theconversation.com/powerful-men-have-tried-to-silence-abused-women-since-medieval-times-86117

Just don’t understand the attitude of some people at all.

I accept that we all have our issues. I accept that some people get triggered when they accidentally are misgendered. I actually try hard to get that right.

But abuse victims can get triggered too. I found the silencing of lesbian abuse and rape victims triggering. I found Finn’s tweet triggering “I believe you, but don’t talk about it. Be quiet for the greater good”. I have not been feeling well this week. I am a person too.

I can tell you one thing. If you silence abuse victims, the abusers will go on. It needs to be out in the open. We need to talk about sexual abuse of children, women and young girls, regardless of who the perpetrators are. That is how we prevent these creeps from continuing.

We need to talk about safe guarding of children. There are procedures for safeguarding. These differ for biological men and biological women. My understanding is that male born offender keep offending at male rates, regardless of transition. The majority of both groups still are completely innocent.

If this study is wrong, let us make a new study. Let’s us prove that it is wrong.

But what we cannot do is silencing the discussion. Rape victims have to be able to speak out. Abuse victims have to speak out. And communities have to stop protecting abusers.

If there is disputed data, let us gather more data. If the research is unclear, let us do more research. I am completely open to that.

But we cannot silence any debate where children, girls and women have suffered abuse. To silence that debate is to turn a blind eye to what is going on. And it will keep going on.

But If abuse victims are women then they are not triggered they are hysterical , or lying , or dirt

I gather

@BatmansBat

Just don’t understand the attitude of some people at all.

I accept that we all have our issues. I accept that some people get triggered when they accidentally are misgendered. I actually try hard to get that right.

But abuse victims can get triggered too. I found the silencing of lesbian abuse and rape victims triggering. I found Finn’s tweet triggering “I believe you, but don’t talk about it. Be quiet for the greater good”. I have not been feeling well this week. I am a person too.

I can tell you one thing. If you silence abuse victims, the abusers will go on. It needs to be out in the open. We need to talk about sexual abuse of children, women and young girls, regardless of who the perpetrators are. That is how we prevent these creeps from continuing.

We need to talk about safe guarding of children. There are procedures for safeguarding. These differ for biological men and biological women. My understanding is that male born offender keep offending at male rates, regardless of transition. The majority of both groups still are completely innocent.

If this study is wrong, let us make a new study. Let’s us prove that it is wrong.

But what we cannot do is silencing the discussion. Rape victims have to be able to speak out. Abuse victims have to speak out. And communities have to stop protecting abusers.

If there is disputed data, let us gather more data. If the research is unclear, let us do more research. I am completely open to that.

But we cannot silence any debate where children, girls and women have suffered abuse. To silence that debate is to turn a blind eye to what is going on. And it will keep going on.

You just don’t understand the attitude of some people at all.

You are right. Some people, more men but women too, do not see women and girls as anything other than an object.

Wondering why they don’t care about our voices won’t help. They don’t see we are human, we are walking holes for men to fuck. Plenty women will duck their heads down and support this rather than face they live in a world where women and girls are truly powerless.

The idea we had made progress on women’s rights is bollocks. If our legal rights protects can be erased by self id laws, or by institutions acting as if self id is real, then we never really had rights anyways. We only ever were granted the appearance of rights by patriarchy, who are now taking those away again to demonstrate their power over us.

Thinking people who silence women and girls can’t understand us leads nowhere. These people don’t not understand because they can’t or won’t. We are a subset of humans to them, we are support props, bodies to be used. They don’t hear us anymore than we can hear what our pets say about being pets.

I know that doesn’t solve the problem. But I find facing the truth of that liberating in other ways. Means I can conserve my energy to fight against people like this rather than fight to get them to hear me.

Oh bat

English isn’t my first language @MultiStorey. I can understand that predators sound more “efficient” than creep but in my mind they are both. I have no words to describe these abusers. I use what I’ve got.

I agree that we need to fight against this but I believe it is essential to have the voices of the victims heard. I want the world to see sexual abuse so it can be stopped. It has to be discussed.

The silencing of victims for “the greater good” or to spare feelings of some people drives me insane.

I have not been ok this week. I have been walking around with a big ball of anxiety inside me and I have at times been in tears. The silencing of the lesbian girls took me badly, it triggered me.

This morning, being still very angry and upset, I made a joke on another thread. It was about how angry I felt and it was about how I felt would translate into pronouns. Ok, it was possibly a swear word. But it was about me. It was about my feelings. It was about my pronouns should I have any.

And guess what? I was deleted. Someone felt so cross that I would have the audacity to make a sad, angry, exasperated joke about my own pronouns, that they reported me. And I was deleted. I was silenced again for the sake of someone else’s feelings. What about my feelings???

have not been ok this week. I have been walking around with a big ball of anxiety inside me and I have at times been in tears. The silencing of the lesbian girls took me badly, it triggered me.

it's horrific, the blatant, open misogyny on show. Much from hypocrites who virtue signalled #metoo.

BatmansBat I'm sorry. That is very unfair. I hope you're ok.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

have not been ok this week. I have been walking around with a big ball of anxiety inside me and I have at times been in tears. The silencing of the lesbian girls took me badly, it triggered me.

it's horrific, the blatant, open misogyny on show. Much from hypocrites who virtue signalled #metoo.

bat

We’re being told how unsafe one group feels while being told rape victims don’t matter, lesbians don’t matter, gc views don’t matter, child safeguarding doesn’t matter. It’s shocking.

Do you remember that thing that started 'First they came for the people of colour and I said nothing ...' and went on to 'Then they came for the Lesbians...' ?
They seem to view 'Lesbians' as the Ultimate Pinnacle of Womanhoodliness to be so determined to penetrate and occupy .

@BatmansBat

English isn’t my first language *@MultiStorey*. I can understand that predators sound more “efficient” than creep but in my mind they are both. I have no words to describe these abusers. I use what I’ve got.

I agree that we need to fight against this but I believe it is essential to have the voices of the victims heard. I want the world to see sexual abuse so it can be stopped. It has to be discussed.

The silencing of victims for “the greater good” or to spare feelings of some people drives me insane.

I have not been ok this week. I have been walking around with a big ball of anxiety inside me and I have at times been in tears. The silencing of the lesbian girls took me badly, it triggered me.

This morning, being still very angry and upset, I made a joke on another thread. It was about how angry I felt and it was about how I felt would translate into pronouns. Ok, it was possibly a swear word. But it was about me. It was about my feelings. It was about my pronouns should I have any.

And guess what? I was deleted. Someone felt so cross that I would have the audacity to make a sad, angry, exasperated joke about my own pronouns, that they reported me. And I was deleted. I was silenced again for the sake of someone else’s feelings. What about my feelings???

I’ve been feeling all that to recently bat.

There are a whole bunch of threads on here if you search about women’s mh suffering because of gender ideology, because of the need for us to fight for our rights because of it.

It’s ok to take some time away from all this. Not saying you have to, but it’s ok to take sometime off from reading about it all/thinking about it all and so on. This board won’t go anywhere, Twitter trenches won’t disappear, the organisations fighting this won’t give up.

I often do that for chunks of time. I feel like I can’t at the moment because I need to fight with my kids school over this currently, and I feel somewhat compulsive about needing to ensure I’m completely on top of every argument so I don’t miss a chance to get it done right. Then when I’m on top of reading here or tweeting I feel somewhat angry I’ve missed crowd funders or emails to mps I should have been on top of, or petitions to sign. It isn’t the best cycle, and it’s the easiest. But the most important part of it is always taking care of our mh first. Whether that’s stepping away for a bit or seeking other support or limiting which threads we read/post on, or skipping weekends or week days or only reading/posting between set hours or something else. The most important for all women is to take care of ourselves first, we are all much more effective at fighting this when we do that. While we need every voice and every pair of hands digging and everyone being aware there are more than enough women involved so that sometimes some of us can prioritise our mh where it’s necessary, so we can come back and carry the load for someone else to take a break if they need.

*ignore if not useful for you

I hear you Bat. You are completely justified in feeling angry, triggered, betrayed and whatever else has been going on for you. I also am incredulous at the way women are being silenced, ignored, ridiculed and insulted for daring to care about the safety and dignity of women and girls. We absolutely should have the right to be heard, and to be safe from the abuse that has been levelled at us because we dare to express concerns and question the validity of the TRA 's stance. You have expressed yourself very clearly and eloquently. I am in complete agreement with all the points you have made. It's really tough trying not to be consumed by this shit show.

for you , Bat .

@BloodinGutters thank you. I completely agree with you and I might step away for a while (I sometimes do). I have also dealt with this in school where the take away my children came away with was (I sincerely hope) not at all the intended one.

We will get through this together. Women are much stronger than we think. And we fight as lionesses for our children.

And I am so grateful and humbled to see all the strong women out there, fighting for the rights of unknown young women.

Thank you @MassiveHoard I am so relieved to be heard on this thread. And I want your women everywhere to be heard. Abuse of girls and young women has to stop. There should be no more silence. Predators and creeps need to be called out and shamed. They should be ashamed, not their victims.