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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

My daughter's friends being all these terms I don't understand

44 replies

Violet9 · 27/10/2021 14:48

My daughter is in her last year at primary school and she is always telling me about her friends coming out as gay, lesbian, pan, omni, I was quite shocked at first when this started last year in year 5 when they were 10 as it seems so young to be deciding or even knowing about these big things - I might just be naive though! It's really ramped up this year, it seems to me since some of them got phones or access to normal YouTube instead of kids, tiktok, and groups and chats on discord etc on their iPads which most of them have if not a phone now.

Then there's gender - and so many different terms I am clueless about. Demiboy/girl, demifluxboy/girl (non binary I understand but that seems passé now and been replaced with multiple word terms for gender identity), I can't keep up with all the labels if it's ok to call them that? They're still 10-11 and so young, a couple of boys but by far more girls who are saying they're trans, nb, demi boy/girl, lesbian, pan, omni, they don't ever seem to mention being bi for some reason? My daughter says she thinks she's straight as she has a crush on a boy, but we talked about there being no rush to label herself in any way because she's so young and barely has a grasp on what sex is, she said it doesn't have anything to do with sex because someone can be asexual or aromantic and still have a crush on someone. I thought at 10-11 you'd be asexual but without that term anyway - as in not wanting to have sex at such a young age or even thinking about it?! They've barely started puberty or learnt about sex and relationships!
It seems to be fuelled by some of them having these YouTube and tiktok accounts and almost hero worshiping each other, the overriding theme of the videos is gender and / or sexuality with these kids, as I say most of them girls who want to be boys or are demi, nb etc. Am I woefully out of date with kids these days? It just seems so young to me. Here's an example of the videos they post:

OP posts:
Original poster
Violet9 · 27/10/2021 14:50
OP posts:
EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 27/10/2021 14:55

I feel for you, OP - there are a number of recent threads from parents in a similar position.

Social media has an enormous influence on creating virtual families and support networks for impressionable (very) young people. The social media algorithms encourage this in a way that is deeply disturbing.

AssassinatedBeauty · 27/10/2021 14:55

I find it surprising that their parents allow them unfiltered access to stuff like this, and allow them to have phones or iPads with unlimited access to TikTok etc.

I think a lot of it is to do with impending puberty and girls being worried about the changes to their bodies as a result and the potentially scary adult world of sexuality being something they will soon have to learn about and navigate. It's just a real shame that their "information" is coming from sources like these rather than from discussions with their families.

Helleofabore · 27/10/2021 15:18

10 you say?

It is moving down the age groups then. I started hearing about it when my tween (as they were then) was 12.

You have my sympathies.

Keep the communication channels open and can I suggest getting your head around this now. Maybe look at some of the podcasts from Stella 0'Malley

www.stellaomalley.com

Even the documentary ‘Trans - Kids - ‘ Time To Talk’ link on the website is a good reference.

There are many issues to look into but the important thing is actually that your daughter knows that they are loved for who they are and that they do not ever have to conform to what other students think they should be. Things that I am sure you are probably doing anyway. I was shocked though when my kid was being told what was for boys and what was for girls.... it was just bizarre that their peers engage in this.

Gncq · 27/10/2021 17:54

This next generation are utterly obsessed with labels and pronouns.
Just keep with the message that it's best to be yourself without boxing yourself in with a bunch of pointless and meaningless labels.
Really, who's business is it what type of person a 10 year old girl might find sexually attractive? Why announce it so young? It's so creepy
I don't mean the children doing that are creepy obviously, it's the adults encouraging it online. Like children's beauty pageants. It's not the child's fault is it.

KittenKong · 27/10/2021 17:58

If they don’t understand ‘sex’ and insist on labelling everything, then how will they ever get a girlfriend/boyfriend? 🙄

Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet · 27/10/2021 18:18

Year 6?! Christ on a bike!

My DD is in year 6, she knows that some people are gay/lesbian and she knows what transgender is, and that's it. Same among her friends as far as I know too.

How are year 6s even finding out about this stuff?!

EarthSight · 27/10/2021 19:24

It's really ramped up this year, it seems to me since some of them got phones or access to normal YouTube instead of kids, tiktok, and groups and chats on discord etc on their iPads which most of them have if not a phone now.

Nope. They're probably on Tumblr.

KittenKong · 27/10/2021 19:38

Social media. I think a lot of parents don’t really know what their kids are exposed to.

Case in India just now with 3 boys (8-11) who are accused of absolutely alarming crime (too horrible to recount) after ‘watching porn on their parents phone during homeschooling’

LobsterNapkin · 28/10/2021 01:00

Yes, it comes from the internet, huge numbers of kids have no supervision.

And it's hard for parents even when they are concerned. You pretty much have to keep them almost off it altogether, and it's now the main vector for kids social life. They really are on the outside. Plus, if you are the only parent not allowing it, the other kids bring it to school anyway.

I saw the same thing in my workplace which had a bucket of pins for people to take during Pride Month(s), based on all the different flags. Not a great idea anyway from my POV but it was especially popular with 10-12 year old girls, who all seemed to be lesbians, and were keen to discuss the various flags and their meanings with the people working at the public desk. Which seemed inappropriate to me to discuss with other people's tweens, but what do I know.

quixote9 · 28/10/2021 07:09

Toddlers in day care have no trouble figuring out what's cool in their group. (And then they come home demanding it, right?)

The current coolness is attached to a mass of proliferating genders or identities or what-have-you. Being cool is the huge thing, the gender stuff is just incidental. But kids, being the literal little creatures they are, can decide to run with it before they have any idea what "it" is. And that's a problem.

The only uncool gender is heterosexual girl, so if your daughter leans that way once puberty arrives, she's going to need mountains of support.

logsonlogsoff · 28/10/2021 07:27

Where on earth does she go to school? This, thankfully, isn’t happening for our yr7 and yr 5/6 kids at all and we live in one of the most diverse/ accepting cities.

logsonlogsoff · 28/10/2021 07:30

We’re strict on SM access though, as in neither of our kids has insta, tik tok, FB, or YouTube. The younger ones don’t have phones or their own devices either.

wherethewildthingis · 28/10/2021 07:34

Ask yourself who benefits from
a. Primary school age children fixating on who they want to have sex with and thinking this is the most interesting thing about themselves and
b. Accepting and perpetuating the idea that to not want to have sex with men /women/people much older than them /trans people makes them narrow minded and boring?
All of this before they hit puberty!
This is being done to our children in plain sight and I will certainly be resisting it for my son.

DaisiesandButtercups · 28/10/2021 07:35

I think that what you said about it starting last year is key OP.

It started in earnest last year for mine as well my oldest was in year 12, youngest in year 8. Having the comparison it was clear to me, none of this was a thing when the oldest was in year 8, she never received lessons about gender identity either but the youngest has done. When my youngest was in year 5 and 6 it absolutely was not a thing. This exploded during covid it seems. Now social media is saturated in it but so are public institutions including schools and the NHS, even supermarkets, even cat treats had LGBT and rainbows (I stopped buying that brand). I think the only thing we can do to protect our children is talk to them about it as you have OP and impress upon them that children do not need to declare any sexual orientation publicly it is better to wait until they are actually old enough to be thinking of a physically intimate relationship, even then it isn’t necessary to shout about it except in the context of actively seeking a partner. Equally it is now on us to discuss gender identity and its ramifications with our children, they need to know what we feel about it, we need to help them make sense of it since society is currently saturated in it and it is very attractive to girls like a much more harmful version of a personality quiz or astrology or being a fan of a particular boy band or music genre.

aweegc · 28/10/2021 07:46

because she's so young and barely has a grasp on what sex is

I feel for you OP. This stood out though. It's not directly what you've asked about but is related.

If the kids are online and not supervised, then they will be learning about sex (or some abomination of it) very soon from porn. I'd honestly suggest that you start having conversations about what healthy relationships and sex are before this starts to appear. And what to do if she's shown a porn video, which will happen. It can be very upsetting for anybody but more so you get children to be exposed to these things and also expected to act cool.

Age 10 is not an unusual age to be shown your first porn video and with so many kids around her with unrestricted internet access it'll be on the horizon.

I've had conversations with DS about this too. It Fuchs me right off to have to explain some of this stuff so young only because I want to plant in his head that porn is not normal activity before he's shown anything. The conversations are not in depth and are short so don't get heavy but it's a line of communication that also needs to be opened unfortunately.

aweegc · 28/10/2021 07:47

*younger children

PicnicPie · 28/10/2021 07:51

This is worrying. Mostly because even if I try to resist this for my own children, there's no stopping what they learn from their peers. From what I've seen, other kids have more freedom online or have older siblings enabling access to content that I wouldn't allow mine to access. My kids have learnt all sorts from their friends (primary y4 and y3) mostly rude words but I think its only matter of time when it becomes about gender and sexuality. I dont know if my body positive messages will cut through the peer pressure at that point.

Motorina · 28/10/2021 08:02

even cat treats had LGBT and rainbows (I stopped buying that brand)

This! I do still buy them, because the kittens love them. But, every time, I look at them and go WTF??? I do not need cat treats to be woke!

NancyIris · 28/10/2021 08:06

My DS in Y6 has no phone or access to social media. I think it is also the way SRE (sex and relationships education) is taught which can lead to confusion. DS asked me if he was gay because all his friends were boys and he didn’t really like the girls in his class (standard for 10 YO boy!). We talked about who you hang out with/spend time with versus your sexuality - which is irrelevant at 10!! I don’t think the distinction is made clear enough for them.

EishetChayil · 28/10/2021 08:48

@Motorina

even cat treats had LGBT and rainbows (I stopped buying that brand)

This! I do still buy them, because the kittens love them. But, every time, I look at them and go WTF??? I do not need cat treats to be woke!

Well, my cat is an asexual demiboy, so I personally like the fact that he is included.

😑

fournonblondes · 28/10/2021 09:16

Social media is the evil. I am so sorry for what the kids are going through these days.

Phobiaphobic · 28/10/2021 09:29

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YetAnotherSpartacus · 28/10/2021 09:37

Well, my cat is an asexual demiboy, so I personally like the fact that he is included

Are you sure you don't mean 'demigod'?

Fukuraptor · 28/10/2021 09:47

Hmm, maybe if it becomes popular at a younger age group who clearly are just playing with labels as if they were star signs, or personality tests, maybe by the time they are actually going through puberty it will all be passé like any other fashion?

Clutches straws hopefully

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