My dcs step sibling - unsure how to deal with this

[carlydooly]

Before I start, I want to make it clear that I have very little personal experience of trans issues so please forgive my ignorance. I really don't mean to offend in anything I say here.

My teen dcs returned from their fathers this weekend to inform me that their 5 year old step sibling now wishes to be known by different pronouns and that they've been asked to use them as has the school. They are clearly confused by this, said they found it a little ridiculous and they weren't doing it unless they had to. They were looking to me for a reaction. I was very neutral and said that in my view the 5 year old is simply a 5 year old and lots of things can and will change. I didn't pass any judgment.

The child in question has so far favoured clothing and toys which wouldn't necessarily conform to traditional gender stereotypes, but so have my two at different stages and nobody has ever given much of a toss nor ever suggested that pronouns should change because of it.

I want to get this right, but tbh I'm also wondering wtf xh and his wife are doing taking this quite so far at this stage with a 5 year old. I'm pretty sure my youngest identified as a dinosaur at around that age.

How the hell am I best handling this when my dcs are looking to me for guidance?

I’d say to refer to the child by the chosen name. Use their name as a pronoun. And I’d support my children to not have to agree that the emperor is clothed. The child has not changed sex.

Lowly probably has the right advice, and it’s your ex’s new wife’s child so tricky anyway…
I did wonder about…passing on some books your dc have outgrown? “my body is me” is aimed at 3-6s and could be included in the pile.

Tell them different people have different beliefs. Start with religion as they will be familiar with that from school.

Then different people believe different things about what makes you a boy or a girl.

This is something they are going to come across in school and you need to get a basic grasp of the issues.

@BlackeyedSusan

Tell them different people have different beliefs. Start with religion as they will be familiar with that from school.

Then different people believe different things about what makes you a boy or a girl.

This is something they are going to come across in school and you need to get a basic grasp of the issues.

I don't really understand your middle paragraph, different people have different ideas about what a boy and girl are? What does this even mean?

Five???

Honestly I'd want to call social services, but unfortunately they would only affirm the idea.

I'd explain it in a "some people believe in gender identities, and they think things like pronouns and stereotypes are important. Most people don't, but it's best not to upset or disagree with anyone, so you can avoid pronouns altogether, and just be nice around your step sibling without drawing attention to contested concepts of gender"

Try the break it down for me thread.

Also think what you believe and what you want your children to know. And teach them early.

Eg having long hair does not make you a girl. Liking football does not make you a boy.

I'd be wondering what the child has had access too or been taught be the parents or school to be spouting gender ideology at 5 years old!

Clearly some people believe that liking pink and having long hair makes you a girl. The step siblings parents being one.

Whilst your kids have to see them, it is diplomatic to talk about others beliefs. This way your kids are not pressured into thinking it is true and can follow your beliefs if they are different.

I don't really understand your middle paragraph, different people have different ideas about what a boy and girl are?
What does this even mean?

Gender ideologists people believe that being a boy or girl has nothing to do with a person's sex. It's to do with an inner feeling of gender, usually expressed by children of either sex through use of toys and clothing choices.
Most people understand "boy" to mean child of the male sex, but gender ideologists ferociously disagree.

Thanks Gncq

I don't think teaching children lies is a good thing, I don't really care what some people believe, biology for a start tell us who is girls or boys. Children should be taught facts not gender bs.

They are clearly confused by this, said they found it a little ridiculous and they weren't doing it unless they had to. They were looking to me for a reaction.

I would use the new name and be careful not to use pronouns when speaking about the child. So "Jack" instead of "him" even if it made what you're saying sound unnatural.

Even though I agree it's ridiculous I would try to be neutral as it's their sibling. I'd be concerned that I f ex heard about what you guys really think it could be awkward 💩 for you all but especially the kids.

No, but these children have to go into a household with this belief system and they need to be equipped with the skills to navigate this without causing them to get into trouble with their other parent and without risk of believing stuff that can be potentially harmful to them.

Different religions is something they will be familiar with from school. Is taught neutrally in school and would be a useful starting point for discussion at home about how different families believe different things. They are going to be exposed to gender ideology and believers in this are quite evangelical about it, and can be rather fundamentalist as this is the only right thing to believe. If you have a different view, now would be a good time to make sure your kids know this and that they do not have to believe the same as step family whilst still having to visit and behave in a way that does not get them into trouble.

I agree with banana. Try using names instead of pronouns.

Also (obliquely, tactfully) remind them that, as teenagers, they get a bit more say about whether they go to the other parent's or not. Tell them to confide in you again if it's getting too much.

Nothing helpful to add I'm afraid, except to say that it's pretty shitty of your ex not to give you a heads up and discuss how to explain this to your kids. You need to do whatever you can to make sure your ex and new wife don't fill your kids' heads with their beliefs about gender

@purpleboy

I don't think teaching children lies is a good thing, I don't really care what some people believe, biology for a start tell us who is girls or boys. Children should be taught facts not gender bs.

To think this matters too.

Religious beliefs exist in an absence of proof. There is no proof there is a god of any sort, but there’s no proof there isn’t either.

If a child is born male there is both proof that child will always be male and that they will never be female.

There’s no absence of proof here.

So the equivalent would be if xh & his wife were insisting the world was flat, when the proof shows it isn’t.

Teaching children to name material reality is good safeguarding, teaching them to deny that is poor safeguarding practice.

Your dc could avoid pronouns if needed, but otherwise they should be free to voice facts.

I don't really understand your middle paragraph, different people have different ideas about what a boy and girl are?
What does this even mean?

I don't think teaching children lies is a good thing, I don't really care what some people believe, biology for a start tell us who is girls or boys. Children should be taught facts not gender bs.

How is it a lie to say some people believe something different?

They do!

I think you are in a very difficult position here but I don't think the teens, or you, actively (to any degree) challenging this will have any positive impact. Your teens could, if they wanted, emphasise that their identities are not linked to their biological sex, but other than that (done v.v. subtly), I thin they should do nothing. I think they will have to use the new name (and it's not a massive deal - lots of people change names). If the changed pronouns are too much for them, avoid using pronouns. There may be will some stereotyped assumptions in exh house and they should challenge that - but that would be the case without the confused 5-year old factor.

I'd support them to look at the Maya Forstater judgement tbh and take it from there.

When my kiddo was 4, she declared she was a dog. I wasn’t surprised because her first words were woof woof. I, however, have never believed she was a dog, just a dog enthusiast. Because I’m a grown up.

She’s now 11, and guess what, she no longer identifies as a dog. Still loves dogs though.

@Gncq

Five???

Honestly I'd want to call social services, but unfortunately they would only affirm the idea.

I'd explain it in a "some people believe in gender identities, and they think things like pronouns and stereotypes are important. Most people don't, but it's best not to upset or disagree with anyone, so you can avoid pronouns altogether, and just be nice around your step sibling without drawing attention to contested concepts of gender"

OP, this is the best advice so far.... most of the thread will focus on how appalling it is to trans a 5 year old. True, but that doesn't help you or your teen DCs situation.

For you and your teen DCs I think you need to equip yourselves with a set of principles for when they stay at their fathers home at weekends. Also I believe you need to create space for them to discuss the situation with you. Your Teen DCs need to know how to set boundaries when staying in their fathers home. For instance, if they are pressured to validate that transing their 5 year old sibling is right they could put a stop to it with boundaries e.g. "I am no longer available to have this conversation with you or engage in this topic so if you continue to talk about this we will go back to Mum's."

For you, as you have very little personal experience of trans issues I recommend the book Trans by Helen Joyce.

There is no was I would 'affirm' a child, especially not one so very young, with the name change or chosen pronouns, to the child or indirectly through my children.

I would be having words with the parents of the child and establishing some boundaries/ground rules during visits. I would not have my children forced to lie to validate something that can only be coming from the parents of this other child.

Five years old? Jazz Jennings was 2 it is claimed. This poor kid.

I would be reassuring DC that despite what some people seem to think at the moment, it's still legal to have freedom of thought and that they don't have to believe in gender ideology to be respectful to their step-sibling.

I would also warn them that if anyone suggests that the views they hold around biology and gender are bigoted, that's not because they are bigoted, and it's not even because those people think its bigoted - it's because they have been told its bigoted by people trained by Stonewall, who have all the power at the moment (as they dictate most major public bodies and private sector policies on sex/gender).

I would show them the Stonewall glossary (especially the definition of "transphobia", which suggests that even thinking that sex occasionally matters is transphobic) so they can get a feel for how totalitarian the views that have seeped into society in the name of "equality" are.

As a PP suggested, also reassure them that the courts have confirmed they are entitled to think gender critical thoughts without fear of persecution (the Forstater case), but that Stonewall and its supporters and the organisations who pay it to lobby them disagree. Point out that Stonewall's view is merely one view and that the reason people parrot it is because Stonewall's voice is so strong and authoritarian, not because they think DC are being unreasonable.

I think the hardest part for young people is being socialised into feeling deep shame around believing that biology is real, so it's important to reassure them that it is acceptable to believe in biology, although lots of people have forgotten that at the moment as they've been socialised to believe questioning anying Stonewall says is bigoted by definition.

I'm sure they wouldn't be unkind to the child anyway, but it's worth mentioning that they should be cautious when discussing the issue with friends or the parents, etc as many police forces have had their policies written by Stonewall too, and because of Stonewall's Workplace Equality Index, those police forces are incentivised by Stonewall to take action against what they believe are "transphobic hate crimes", because they're struggling to understand what transphobia means too because Stonewall has advised these organisations that the law is how they would like it to be, as opposed to how it actually is.

That doesn't need to mean don't speak, of course, but I think the bottom line is to remind them that rejecting gender ideology is perfectly compatible with treating others with respect and compassion, and that people are very confused about the law and whats acceptable at the moment, but that there is a growing movement of gender critical voices working tirelessly to make sure they grow up in a world where biology isn't a dirty word and that they retain sex-based rights and freedom of speech in the eyes of the law and society.

For myself, I would describe the use of preferred pronouns as an act of faith. Like prayers before mealtimes.

How much respect you show to people who have a different faith is a matter of personal choice.

I don't challenge people who prayer. I respect their need for prayer. But I don't join in.

Putting this in the context of your situation I would encourage your dc to reflect on how much respect they feel appropriate in this situation. To set their boundaries and be confident that these are as worthy of respect as anyone else's, (eg Forstater) inc that of a younger sibling or new wife.

If this is an issue for the xh then it is for him to explain why respect for one of his children is placed before another.

It would at least make it clear to everyone exactly what is happening (a family has an ideological belief) and why (they are asking others to declare an ideological belief regardless as to their own).

In general the argument is that failing to respect gender ideology is more hurtful to an individual (dysphoria) than failing to respect a rational understanding of biology.

For myself that can only be applied to specific situation and not generalised.