Why doesn't Bridget Christie get it?

[RoyalCorgi]

Guardian interview today:

www.theguardian.com/stage/2021/oct/20/bridget-christie-flashers-penis-horrible-menopause-comedy-female-anger-comedian

She talks about how awful it was to be flashed. She talks about the experience of menopause. And then she gets onto Ricky Gervais:

'Gervais, meanwhile, receives her ire for his efforts to be an “edgy” comedian, and his use of transphobic tropes (“I’ve always identified as a chimp,” he says in Humanity). “It’s the same joke over and over again,” she says. “Or some joke about toilets. Just let people go to the fucking toilet.”'

Why doesn't she understand it's not just about the "fucking toilet"? That it's also about the fucking changing rooms, the fucking prisons, the fucking sports, the fucking rape crisis centres?

If she can understand that women have a distinctive physiology that makes their experience different from men, why does she think it's possible for men to "identify" as women?

Has she missed the torrent of sexual abuse and death threats aimed at women who dissent from this ideology?

I did a similar double take when Hannah Gadsby made a cheap TERF joke. One of her most powerful standup sections for me was when she talked about 'I don't hate men; I'm scared of them.' But no concern for other people who are scared of men, and might be unexpectedly confronted with them in a vulnerable state, apparently.

@TeamRex

It's so strange how the liberal feminists don't get it. They talk about growing up as a girl, becoming a young woman, the harassment, the huge affect on your life of becoming a mother, yet simultaneously say TWAW or talk about "female identifying" people.

It's definitely cognitive dissonance because men who transition will not have had those experiences. It's not hate to know what a woman is.

Maybe this speaks to the underlying thinking in liberal feminism. Which is essentially that men and women are identical and interchangeable other than in the actual configuration of their reproductive organs The way forward for a good society is for men and women, as a group, to make identical types of choices in terms of careers, caring for children, and so on. Femininity and masculinity are just descriptions of subjective feelings we all have but have no intrinsic relation to genitals. It's just chance and bad thinking that they have been associated with genitals in the past, the archetype of mother, for example, could just as easily associated with a person with a penis.

I don’t like her feminism-lite. I never even got what is wrong with a biro for women actually. Women have smaller hands on average and there are plenty of feminists complaining, rightly imo, that things are designed for men as a default.

Yeah they made a pink bic for her - even that’s not terrible. Lots of women do like pink and there’s loads of other pink stuff made for women, eg clothes, that doesn’t cause a fuss.

Making a pen to suit women’s hands is nowhere near as anti-feminist as sneering at and slagging off women who want to have their own female sex category, which is the actual basis of feminism, and safe spaces.

I think part of it is just that a lot of people, rather than thinking their positions through, just want to be a certain type of person. And for a lot of women, especially younger, artsy women, that’s being generally lefty, feminist as long as it doesn’t scare the horses in a horrible man-hating way, and liberal. When the trans issue came along they just assumed (and were brainwashed into thinking, to be fair) that trans people are exactly like gay people, and we must be nice to them and give them what they want, and anyone who questions that is obviously an old-school bigot. The thinking stops there because they are happy that that places them in the “good person” category and venturing out of it = bigotry, so they don’t.

Did she really, Apricot?

Dearie me. Joke stealing is not good in comedy - interesting that it is less bad than believing in sex.

“If Boris was a woman, he wouldn’t be in a job any more.”

Not if he was born one, no. But if ‘became’ one all his wrongs would be instantly forgotten.

That’s my takeaway from that article.

Comedians hating on Gervais is lazy. He’s richer than most of them combined, he doesn’t give a fuck and like J k Rowling, he can’t be cancelled. And it’s no surprise she doesn’t get it. Being a true feminist has never been fashionable and it’s very hard and painful to unpick internalised misogyny.

Wonder why she thought the flasher was a man and not a woman? Did she ask?

To be fair, that article doesn't at all outline 'what she believes' about the trans debate. She's mainly having a go at Ricky Gervais's lazy jokes. I haven't seen/heard much of what he's said but what I have, I'd agree is lazy. (Especially when you're married to 'the comedian's comedian'.... they're hardly going to have much of an overlapping audience).

I'll stand corrected if he's actually picking up pro-women arguments but saying 'lol I identify as xyz' is about cheap laughs. And we get so used to being told that knowing that there are 2 sexes is transphobic we can forget that real transphobia is real and awful.

And also, she explicitly states that "the menopause will, she points out, affect “one-in-one women”".
That's as GC as you can get!

Speaking of Josie Long, didn't she delete all her old tweets some time ago after there was a bit of discussion about them? Very strongly convinced that TWAW .

@MonsignorMirth she was also a big advocate of Mermaids.

Yes, that was it. Just been re-reading this. Think it was a bit of a storm in a teacup but interesting to read!
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3992200-Jameela-and-Josie-backing-away

Re the mention of Stewart Lee, although of course BC is responsible for fuck all he chooses to do or think, I am currently reading a book of his.

It's called 'The "if you prefer a milder comedian comedian please ask for one" EP' - a transcript of a live show with notes. He's clever all right but dear lord there's a real contempt for his audience running through it. And that's the curse of the comedian - when the audience becomes the unknown enemy. The uncertainty. The fear that this thing that sustains you could turn and bite or be indifferent or not nurture you.

Like a shit relationship.

Especially when you're married to 'the comedian's comedian'.... they're hardly going to have much of an overlapping audience

In one of Stewart Lee's books, he claims that Gervais stole his act - this was relatively early on in Gervais's career. So perhaps that's where the animus originates.

I very much doubt that all of Gervais's trans jokes are of the "I could identify as a monkey" variety. That's probably just Christie's characterisation of them. I have heard that he makes jokes about Caitlyn Jenner, but as Jenner is a rich white Republican it's probably harder for Christie and Lee to use the "Gervais is attacking a vulnerable group" argument, so they ignore it.

Disapointed in both of them. I dont believe for a minuite either of them are true believers.

And Stewart Lee really has let himself go.

I'v seen him in the Haringey Sainsburys, not a prity sight.

@MonsignorMirth When I look at an old thread like that, August 2020, I just can't believe that I had no idea that any of this trans stuff was going on! I'm not sure whether I'm pleased that I found out about it or not, sometimes it feels a bit of a burden....

Yes I think it was Caitlyn Jenner and the fact that CJ was involved in a collision that killed someone but it’s never mentioned since transition. Also about deadnaming I think, eg CJ doesn’t want people to forget about Bruce winning the Olympic medal - that kind of thing, from memory.

May I recommend Mary Bourke, a hilarious GC Irish feminist comedian? She did a whole set on “Don’t you dare call me a terf”, took the piss out of the NHS cervical cancer leaflets, and takes no prisoners. I’ve seen her live at the Fringe, and she was wonderful.
She even roped her huge husband into her act - got him to take up poses from porno mags, to illustrate how demeaning and idiotic they were for the women models. He was great too, I think also a comedian.

That sounds great Babdoc I'd never heard of her

She got ranted at in Prick News, 1Week, which is always a reliable recommendation, I find!

I'v seen him in the Haringey Sainsburys, not a prity sight.

I suppose this is a separate topic, but he doesn't look well. Probably all those years of touring and living on pies and beer have taken their toll.

She looks pretty good in the Guardian pic, though.

I'm sure Stewart Lee and Bridget Christie understand the issues just fine, but they're happy to pretend they don't for fear of being cancelled etc. Not a good look. Was really disappointed in that Guardian interview too

www.jkrowling.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Radio-4_Museum-of-Curiosity-1024x768.jpg
I’ve just tried to listen to this but can’t access the recording through the link or on bbc sounds - though you can listen to this programme going back years - also note that in the photo Bridget is shrinking away from JK - should be honoured to sit in the same room as far as I’m concerned. If anyone does know how to listen can you point me in the right direction? Have seen BR on stage and she was not v funny at all.

But she did debate whether to mention ‘menopause’ in the show’s publicity. “I was thinking, ‘Will that affect who comes?’” She decided to go all in: the menopause will, she points out, affect “one-in-one women”, while fathers, sons, partners and friends will indirectly experience it too. Christie has already been pleasantly surprised by, “bunches of young men really, really laughing”. She thinks she knows part of the reason why. “It’s because I’m their mum, aren’t I? They’re laughing because they recognise it.”

Sounds a bit T*y to me, Bridget.

Ricky Gervais is genuinely funny, which comes through in off-the-cuff stuff, interviews and so on.

He's definitely not establishment, like BC and her equally unfunny spouse.

“To be fair, that article doesn't at all outline 'what she believes' about the trans debate. She's mainly having a go at Ricky Gervais's lazy jokes. I haven't seen/heard much of what he's said but what I have, I'd agree is lazy.”

I’ve seen that show, I didn’t feel like the jokes were lazy. And I’m pretty sure Gervais actually ‘gets it’.