Margaret Atwood

[MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking]

twitter.com/MargaretAtwood/status/1450429768067846145?t=8q-A8MlvzZsx6pt4Vu1_LA&s=19

Has retweeted an article from the Toronto Star "why can't we say woman anymore" and bloody hell are they coming for the latest witch burning in the comments!

Ranging from disappointment to the usual sweary abuse. I thought oh how long till the capitulation begins, turns out I didn't have to wait long!

She's following it up with retweets about 'we can say people when it's accurate and inclusive' and then defending the article because the writer isn't "a terf"???

Not really sure what she's trying to achieve here, anyone?

Oh the Daily Mail piece is great. It opens up the debate and let’s people make up their own minds. And lots of comments are like - well if that is what transphobic means then I am a transphobe.

@Mrsjamin

The USA is just so polarised politically, generally people believe you're either on the left and believe in all the wokedom OR you're on the right, you're a christian fundamentalist and you believe in traditional sex roles and do not believe in abortion, same sex marriage or being trans. Most people in the USA just don't see how you can be on the left and have an issue with how far trans rights have trumped women's rights - they don't understand how those beliefs sit together in one world view. Indeed, many people believe that if you think trans rights have gone too far, you also believe in traditional sex roles and stereotypes - which I can see no evidence of, in the UK at least.

Mr Fox Killer also tries to push this narrative, that if you are critical of gender you're in with the alt right. 🙄 Sorry Jolyon, I'll continue to be in favour of gun control, vaccines, redistributing wealth and treating refugees humanely even though it doesn't fit your narrative.

DiManno claimed that 'woman' was 'in danger of becoming a dirty word.'

She said the word was at risk of being 'struck from the lexicon of officialdom, eradicated from medical vocabulary and expunged from conversation.'

This from the article.

A poster was here yesterday saying exactly this! That language changes and using woman will go the way of bigoted words like "coloured" in the name of progress!

It's interesting that Attwood had no idea she was already a bigot!

@OvaHere

So why didn't she see the downside for women? Is she in fact out of touch? Handmaid's Tale was written/published nearly 40 years ago. Perhaps the TV version rolling out gave MA a reflected glow of contemporary relevance that didn't actually exist?

I think some people can only see threats to women coming from the right wing. Especially in North America where politics are even more polarised. Truth is both sides are only too eager to put the boot on our neck, they just differ in their means.

I agree completely. The threats to women are seen as in the form of pro-life policies and the glass ceiling. Not in the woke, left-wing advocates of inclusion and equal opportunities.

There’s a blunting of the discourse and a lack of nuance. Like so many on this thread, I am generally left-wing, pro-choice, pro-human rights, pro-welfare state and pro-welcoming refugees.
I am also for legislation that prevents a trans person from being discriminated against or harassed, but that I also believe that being a woman is a biological fact and self ID is a road to abuse and a trouncing of women’s rights.
You might ‘feel female’ but without the surgery and living as a woman, including changing the birth certificate you are not a woman.

Two more tweets (climate change) from Atwood.

No retraction.

I'm amazed the tweet is still up. Relieved, but surprised

You might ‘feel female’ but without the surgery and living as a woman, including changing the birth certificate you are not a woman.

No surgery, lifestyle, or birth certificate, can change someone's sex.

Newsweek (v tepid article, I'm just posting it here for the sake of gathering media responses): www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/what-did-handmaids-tale-author-margaret-atwood-say-exactly/ar-AAPKkb9

@MedusasBadHairDay

I'm amazed the tweet is still up. Relieved, but surprised

I am utterly delighted that there so far hasn't been a retraction/apology/announcement of re-education.

If MA posted a link to Jenny Joseph or a picture of herself wearing purple and drinking brandy then I'd be so uplifted that I'd positively be levitating.

Interesting that she's refusing to recant.
I wonder if the censorship of language is beginning to be a concern to writers. There's a perfectly reasonable and humane push for inclusion, but it must start to ring warning bells when this demands abandoning well understood and universally used words.
If MA is making a stand I would imagine this to be quite a big deal in Canada

@Blessex

Oh the Daily Mail piece is great. It opens up the debate and let’s people make up their own minds. And lots of comments are like - well if that is what transphobic means then I am a transphobe.

I have challenged people openly on facebook - eg members of an all-"female" band with a male bodied trans person in their number. It is astonishing how many people are willing to defend Stonewall and push "trans rights" and throw around accusations of bigotry whilst POINTEDLY REFUSING to say anything about rapists in women's prisons despite being specifically asked, and whilst entirely failing to answer what trans rights they are asking for.

@Floisme

It's nothing to do with forgiveness or sympathy as far as I'm concerned. It's not like I'm ever going to be her friend. But I'm pragmatic. Every other week there's a thread on here asking whether or not the tide is turning, well I'm sorry but, if it really is going to turn - and in Canada of all places - then this is what's needed.

I do agree. Sort of reluctantly as I think she's a massively overrated writer and a self-regarding, fool of a person but yes. OK. Come on over Margaret. Cross the Golden Bridge.

Although she's going to recant by tomorrow so it might not be an issue.

@ArabellaScott

You might ‘feel female’ but without the surgery and living as a woman, including changing the birth certificate you are not a woman.

No surgery, lifestyle, or birth certificate, can change someone's sex.

I agree.

It's still morning in Canada. Give her time to give a full grovelling apology.

I don't know about anyone else, but if a load of people sent me abusive messages telling me I was an evil, racist, transphobic bigot, and had always been an evil, racist, transphobic bigot, that wouldn't make me inclined to recant. In fact, it would make me dig my heels in.

What if digging in would lose you your status as national treasure? And the highly elevated status going with it?

@nauticant

What if digging in would lose you your status as national treasure? And the highly elevated status going with it?

Good point!

I think I would prefer to do what's right rather than what's easy. But then I'm not Margaret Atwood.

@nauticant

What if digging in would lose you your status as national treasure? And the highly elevated status going with it?

That's already lost. Thoughtcrimes are never forgiven. She's in the JKR box from now on no matter what apology she might make.

@LobsterNapkin

And living in Canada, she would have seen gender politics rolled out, not by stealth as it has been in the UK/Ireland, but right in her face.

I can see why you might think that, but it's not how it has played out. I seriously doubt Atwood has had more than an inkling of the problems involved in this. People have been very reassured by the state that these laws are just fine and will have no bad effects. They do not know about people like Yaniv and if they hear they think they are just crazies that you get everywhere from time to time.

Really? All the stuff with Jordan Petersen and C-16 didn't make enough headlines to capture MA's attention? Didn't send her on a train of enquiry as to why a liberal professor thought free speech was under attack? A father being jailed for using the "wrong pronouns" for his own daughter didn't prick her interest? None of the JKR fallout made her wonder why a load of liberal lesbian feminists opposed her camp? Nothing. Nada. She just blindly listened to the state. This woman who writes about state sanctioned oppression. OK.

The Assigned Male cartoonist has weighed in and people are sharing their Atwood comic strip. Seems like everyone has forgotten about that unfortunate little interlude with baby furries.

It is always remarkable to see which people and crimes get rehabilitated and which don't.

I can't believe she's done this and is soooo ungrateful to all the transwomen who have literally carried feminism for us!!!!
mobile.twitter.com/hatpinwoman/status/1450519904772370444?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1450744688995180546%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=

I'm being sarcastic btw!

Thank goodness transwoman were there, fighting for women's rights for so many generations. Where would we have been without them!