Margaret Atwood

[MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking]

twitter.com/MargaretAtwood/status/1450429768067846145?t=8q-A8MlvzZsx6pt4Vu1_LA&s=19

Has retweeted an article from the Toronto Star "why can't we say woman anymore" and bloody hell are they coming for the latest witch burning in the comments!

Ranging from disappointment to the usual sweary abuse. I thought oh how long till the capitulation begins, turns out I didn't have to wait long!

She's following it up with retweets about 'we can say people when it's accurate and inclusive' and then defending the article because the writer isn't "a terf"???

Not really sure what she's trying to achieve here, anyone?

@WarriorN

Well quite.

I get the feeling that the narratives in the US/ Canada are harder to unpick.

Do they as a whole rely more on the news channels? Which are biased? I seem to remember someone saying that the newspapers here are akin to the news channels there, ie, a wide range of biases, whereas due to the bbc and requirement for balance, the tv news here is more moderate and tends to show wider range of opposing views.

It means therefore that we have centrist tv shows comparing newspaper headlines which have different takes on things which helps demonstrate how biases work.

Makes me wonder if they then lack seeing that play out weekly. (Just musing.)

I think that's accurate WRT Canada. It seems to me the US has a different dynamic.

One of the things with Canada is that the population is not that large, 38 million compared to 67 million in the UK, or 329 million in the US. And spread out over a much larger area, 4 people per square km, though bunched together to a large extent.

We just don't have the numbers and wealth for the plethora of media sources you have in the UK. And there has been really significant loss of small newspapers and small local television stations as well. There are two national newspapers, and two national broadcasters, one being the CBC. There are 98 daily papers, including free things, but only 7 are independent. Most of these have only very local distribution, and most run all the same stories as they are owned by the same major consortiums, one being the same one that owns CTV.

She believes that the fact that the population in the UK is so clustered together makes it easier for people from different areas to congregate

This is a huge advantage for UK feminists and social movements in general, and definitely one of the reasons you have been as successful as you have so far. Canada's vastness and small population make organizing very, very difficult. I know there are women in my local area who are very sympathetic to this cause, but we'd lack any kind of critical mass or reach into the rest of the country.

Actually I see Canada's size as one of our greatest challenges in a greater social and political sense too. It is hard to hold together a country this big with so many separate internal identities.

@teezletangler

She believes that the fact that the population in the UK is so clustered together makes it easier for people from different areas to congregate

This is a huge advantage for UK feminists and social movements in general, and definitely one of the reasons you have been as successful as you have so far. Canada's vastness and small population make organizing very, very difficult. I know there are women in my local area who are very sympathetic to this cause, but we'd lack any kind of critical mass or reach into the rest of the country.

Actually I see Canada's size as one of our greatest challenges in a greater social and political sense too. It is hard to hold together a country this big with so many separate internal identities.

I wonder if maybe the way forward could be to work more at the provincial level?

That's interesting Lobster, so a particular political view is more likely to prevail. Especially one so expertly lobbied for.

I had no idea of Canada's relative demographics. Thanks, pps. It's interesting how geography affects political and social movements.

Of course, the internet does help to overcome those kind of geographical barriers to an extent.

@ArabellaScott

Of course, the internet does help to overcome those kind of geographical barriers to an extent.

Yes, but action (as opposed to tweeting) is often at a local level.

Some of the comments on Facebook are terrifyingly obtuse.

Sorry, wrong thread.

And now they are removing her books from libraries. They’re literally coming for her. Regardless of her personal reaction, I feel very concerned about what’s happening in Canada.

twitter.com/margaretatwood/status/1453416025064714249?s=21

www.cambridgetoday.ca/local-news/books-deemed-harmful-to-staff-and-students-are-being-removed-from-regions-public-school-libraries-4551859

[quote AnyOldPrion]And now they are removing her books from libraries. They’re literally coming for her. Regardless of her personal reaction, I feel very concerned about what’s happening in Canada.

twitter.com/margaretatwood/status/1453416025064714249?s=21

www.cambridgetoday.ca/local-news/books-deemed-harmful-to-staff-and-students-are-being-removed-from-regions-public-school-libraries-4551859[/quote]
One of the comments below the article blame the far right, they’re so blinkered in Canada that they can’t even see that it’s the left that’s doing this. “Something wrong? Blame the far right, they’re just modern day Nazis!”

No no, that's VERY deliberate, to blame the far right. It's a concerted ploy to lump any gender criticism in with alt right and far right extremist beliefs about women's rights, to downplay any effectiveness of the GC movement being in ANY way about true feminism.

There have been recent suggestions that the GC movement in the UK, and the LGB Alliance, are funded by the alt right Conservative Christians in the USA, people who are vehemently pro-life and very strongly in favour of sex stereotypes - there is no truth to it but it's an effective piece of propaganda.
Here is an article explaining where the extremely tenuous link came from and how it has been extrapolated out into a lie that is being regularly used to discredit both the LGB Alliance, and the UK GC feminists.
lesbianandgaynews.com/2021/10/gary-powell-why-the-gender-ideology-activists-are-wrong-about-me-the-heritage-foundation-and-lgb-alliance/

And now they are removing her books from libraries. They’re literally coming for her. Regardless of her personal reaction, I feel very concerned about what’s happening in Canada.

Of course this was going to happen, and the blaming it on outside people, not the community itself. Propaganda is effective and powerful. See: demand for purity; dispensing of existence in Robert Lifton's 8 criteria of thought reform:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4382551-Live-not-by-lies-Solzhenitsyn-no-tambourines-involved?msgid=111900052

Does anyone recall the book in Canada that was being handed out in public libraries together with a librarian-supplied resource sheet for counter views? This was a half way house between pulling it entirely from the library? The library was in somewhere with a UK sort of name like Hull or Halifax?

Earlier this year, the Ottawa-Carleton District School Board removed William Golding's classic Lord of the Flies from its curriculum after its advisory committee on equity agreed with a student who said the book’s themes were outdated and too focused on white, male power structures.

Other books recently removed from Canadian school libraries and/or curriculums in response to complaints about racist, homophobic, or misogynistic language and themes, include Harper Lee's To Kill A Mockingbird and Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid’s Tale.

JFC.

They are removing the books that teach people about standing up for what is right, about resisting groupthink, about questioning authority and about oppression. This is - well, it's beyond satire and edging right into dystopia.

Actually, scratch 'edging'. It's rushing fucking headlong into George Orwell, while conveniently denying such a book as 1984 ever existed.

What books are they replacing them with?

Candide. With all the difficult bits cut out.

That's really disturbing about the book removal.
I mean, those books are of their time and are MEANT to TEACH kids about what's wrong, by promoting and provoking discussion and deconstruction.

Taking them away is indeed Orwellian - "wrong think" and "new speak", based on Communism of course. Canada would probably crap a brick if they understood how like Communism their regime is becoming - they think they're so fucking "liberal", they've no clue!!

@MondayYogurt

What books are they replacing them with?

Colouring in books with rounded corners.

Jesus

I'm from the generation of teenagers where, if we heard that something - a book, a film, a record, even a style of hair or clothing - was banned, we'd deliberately seek it out. Now it's the teenagers doing the banning.

Regarding the dystopian book removal, for the last few years I've deliberately bought books which I think are important in hard copy, not ebook or not only ebooks, because of a vague idea that amazon might decide to edit or restrict them. I've got a copy of 1984 from a charity shop squirrelled away

We've always had banned books, forbidden ideas, but I've always thought that a country which bans books ends up looking rather idiotic. This feels a bit different, they're saying they banned the books because of misogynist and racist themes, but the books are about standing against misogyny and racism. They're misrepresenting them in order to justify banning them. That's a really odd thing to do. Why has Canada of all places gone so extreme

@ArabellaScott

Actually, scratch 'edging'. It's rushing fucking headlong into George Orwell, while conveniently denying such a book as 1984 ever existed.

I'm choosing these from Robert Lifton's Eight Criteria for Thought Reform as an explanation of what is happening with the removal of the book. For an author, Is think that having your books removed from public spaces like libraries and schools is a denial of the existence of your professional identity and status as a contributor to culture. However, for me it's truly alarming that a closed community has such influence on public policy-making that it's now restricting public access to books/ideas for the wider community.

How long until there's a concerted attack on public networks streaming Handmaids's Tale ?

Milieu Control. This involves the control of information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large.

Sacred Science. The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group…

Doctrine over person. Members' personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group.

Dispensing of existence. The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not…Thus, the outside world loses all credibility…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_Reform_and_the_Psychology_of_Totalism

Oh my goodness. How is this happening.

Well, that's not at all worrying, Embarrassing.