This has really upset me

[Tittyfilarious81]

Sorry I don't normally post on this board so hope it's the right place, but this upsets me so much. I am a mother and proud to be called a mother / mum I feel like everything about being female is being stripped away piece by piece where the voice of the few is so loud now that the voice of the many is ignored
Scotland's civil service deleted 'MOTHER' from maternity policy mol.im/a/10103811 via dailym.ai/android

No one is stopping anyone from using the word mother to describe themselves.

Not yet, no. Though I expect there are TRAs who think this should happen. But the removal of words like 'mother' and 'woman' from official and government documentation is still unacceptable. If we absolutely must maintain the utter fiction that people who aren't women can give birth, then at least documentation should say "mothers and those who identify as birth parents" or something. But it is a fiction, and the law should not be dealing in fiction.

@Rhannion

The saying “ give an inch and people take a mile” has never been more pertinent than it is now.

Indeed

Yet not one person here read or commented on the article in the Lancet which explains it all from a medical perspective.

We all just run and jump on the Daily Mail to inform us of our opinions.

What do you think we are missing? Many of the people on this thread are perfectly well informed on the "medical perspective". Speak for yourself. Why don't you quote the portion of the article you find so important so that we know what we are supposed to be looking at?

I am the daughter of my mother, as she is the daughter of her mother, as she was the daughter of her mother. When my grandmother was born her ovaries and eggs grew in her, in her mother’s womb, my mother was one of those eggs. As she grew in my grandmothers womb her ovaries and eggs grew in her within my grandmothers womb. I was one of those eggs. No male can do this. No matter what accommodations you want us to make, no matter how you try to erase the word. WE ARE MOTHERS.

@Gumbomambo

I am the daughter of my mother, as she is the daughter of her mother, as she was the daughter of her mother. When my grandmother was born her ovaries and eggs grew in her, in her mother’s womb, my mother was one of those eggs. As she grew in my grandmothers womb her ovaries and eggs grew in her within my grandmothers womb. I was one of those eggs. No male can do this. No matter what accommodations you want us to make, no matter how you try to erase the word. WE ARE MOTHERS.

👏👏👏

Well said Gumbo

This is a short piece that sums up how I feel about this. womenvotingwithourfeet.wordpress.com/2021/10/17/erasing-mother-is-morally-wrong/

Yet not one person here read or commented on the article in the Lancet which explains it all from a medical perspective.

What do you mean by 'explains it all'? Explains what? I've just skim-read it and it seems to be mostly about the fact that there can be some confusion when using the phrase 'biological sex' when referring to people who have a dsd, or abnormally high testosterone etc. I fail to see how that means that 46 year-old Brian from accounts, who's decided he's now Susan, is a woman, having been a fully be-testicled and testerone-filled man for 46 years. Or that we shouldn't describe women who gave birth 'mothers'.

Sorry, but 'some people have dsd' is not a gotcha. And I imagine that people with a dsd are getting pretty sick of being used as a Trojan horse by TRAs. 'Some people disagree about which marker should be prioritised to define biological sex' also isn't a gotcha. Because virtually everybody of that sex has all the commonly-used markers. And that includes trans people.

yy Gumbo. We are the daughters of the witches they failed to burn. Thumbs up.

I'm on ep8 of the Nolan Investigation. No other lobbying group would be allowed to be embedded in our public organisations like this!

Our services are inclusive, and we will build specialist pathways that meet individual needs – particularly for those who do not identify as women in recognition that pregnancy may be especially challenging for those experiencing dysphoria. However we will continue to talk about women in our campaigning, advocacy and general client materials. This is partly in acknowledgement that this is how the majority of those using our services see themselves, and patients need to recognise themselves in health-related information in order for it to be effective. But we will also continue to use the word “women” over “people” so we can continue to campaign effectively for reproductive rights. Women’s reproductive healthcare and choices remain regulated and restricted in the way they are precisely because they are women’s issues, sadly still bound up with heavily gendered and judgmental approaches to female sexuality, ideals of motherhood and expectations of maternal sacrifice, and the need to control women’s bodies and choices. If we cannot clearly articulate that it is predominantly women, rather than people at large, who are affected by this we will find it much harder to dismantle a framework that today is still underpinned by sexism, and achieve a broader goal of ensuring that everyone, no matter how they identify, can access the care and support they need as swiftly and straightforwardly as possible.

This quote from bpas explains exactly why I am so concerned about the erasure of the words woman and mother from public discourse/policy.

I can't tell you how deeply offended I am at the statement that "woman" operates as a word just as "coloured" or "retarded" did back in the day. Not surprised at the contempt shown to women but deeply offended.

I just find this so exhausting.

I am supposed to remember a variety of pronouns and refer to someone I perceive as obviously male (with beard and all) as a woman.

But these people cannot give me the courtesy of referring to me as “mother “ in return.

I will agree to birthing parent when all transwomen are happy to be referred to as penis people (and transmen as vagina owners). Until then, I am keeping mother. Thank you.

We do not use derogatory words such as 'coloured' or 'retarded', despite there at the time being objection to changing the status quo.

Mother is not a derogatory word. Mothers are not asking for the meaning of the word to be changed. Mothers are not asking for a different word to be used.

In the same vein we no longer use 'disorder' and 'co-morbidity'

Scientists do. Medical practitioners do. Academics do.

The Stephen Nolan Investigation is astonishing listening. Great journalism! I wonder what will happen at the BBC as a result?

I'm going to read Helen Joyce book next. I see Murdo Fraser MSP is tweeting about it too.

@Tobogganist I read Helen Joyce’s book just before the podcast came out. If I ever had my doubts before, I certainly don’t now! Mind blowing.

@Gumbomambo

I am the daughter of my mother, as she is the daughter of her mother, as she was the daughter of her mother. When my grandmother was born her ovaries and eggs grew in her, in her mother’s womb, my mother was one of those eggs. As she grew in my grandmothers womb her ovaries and eggs grew in her within my grandmothers womb. I was one of those eggs. No male can do this. No matter what accommodations you want us to make, no matter how you try to erase the word. WE ARE MOTHERS.

That’s us ❤️❤️

Wait a minute, I'm a cervix-haver aka mother and my mother is a grandmother.

Is she supposed to be a 'grand cervix-haver'?

Or a 'my cervix is grander-haver'?

Queen of cervix-havers...?

Another thought on mothers, what about female animals, can we have a mother cat, or is that a 'cat that was pregnant'?

@ShagMeRiggins

In the same vein we no longer use 'disorder' and 'co-morbidity'

Scientists do. Medical practitioners do. Academics do.

I am a postdoctoral academic, working in a faculty of medical and life sciences, published in several journals, and I can assure you that we are moving away from this type of language.

If what scientists, medical practitioners and academics say is so important why not lead with the medical and psychiatric literature first.

As for you thinking I said 'mother' is a 'derogatory' term, you missed the point completely.

If we missed your point, maybe that's because you chose to illustrate the changing of language with examples of derogatory terms no longer being used.

And you seemed to be missing the point that, sure, we can use the word woman ourselves - but we're seeing it being avoided in medical & legal information pertaining only to females. The ACAS document on issues around menstruation in the workplace which on the 18th did not use the word 'women' even once. This made it less clear. (It was already inclusive, with sections specifically about trans people).

I guess if we can't have the term mother then queen and king must be equally problematic

Person who rules isn't quite right these days
Figurative head of state sounds a bit dismissive

No Prince or princess , Dame or lord

No husbands and wives also

I guess if we can't have the term mother then queen and king must be equally problematic

Person who rules isn't quite right these days
Figurative head of state sounds a bit dismissive

Monarch is fine. It's a role which (despite previous discriminatory inheritance rules) isn't sex specific. I don't think that's an analagous example.

Reading through this thread however, it is sad to see the sentiment - trans women are not women. Trans men are not men. That is the human rights issue here - because we should be accommodating this, in the same way that we accommodate other LGB minorities.

Just say women and transwomen, mothers and trans mothers, women and transmen - whatever is relevant, why can we not add to the language - but mysteriously you want to remove the word mother for something 'more inclusive'.

Mothers are the adult female humans who give birth to babies.

TM who give birth are a 'TM mother'. Thus TM should evolve their language to be inclusive of their position as mothers, rather than take the title father. Fathers are sperm-providers and they cannot create sperm.