A thought about 'cis'

[Fleek]

I was just lying in bed thinking last night and wanted to share what popped into my head with people. I'm sure this has occurred to others (everyone else?) because it's pretty obvious but I haven't seen it written down explicitly anywhere else.

It's about the word 'cis.' Activists are so insistent we use that term ourselves and are labelled that. I've seen women be very articulate about why they hate it and I've nodded along with everything written. All the stuff about how I don't 'identify' as a woman, I am one because of my sexed body, and about how we don't want to be tied to any gender stereotypes that redefine being female as having swishy hair or loving housework or being submissive, etc. etc.

But there is another layer to it. The mantra is transwomen ARE women. If TWAW, then why would this movement want to force a label on us that actually distinguishes us from TW? Surely that's an own goal?

I think actually, it's a way of forcing us into being seen as/taking the position of oppressors. We aren't being branded as 'cis' in order to separate us as just a different type of woman (like the awful way they use 'disabled woman, black woman, trans woman') or just to change the idea of woman into being a gender and not a sex, it's also about firmly telling us we have privilege and are on a higher rung than TW. If we look at oppression Olympics generally, the only way to be a good citizen is to make supplication by publicly labelling your privilege isn't it? Saying 'I'm inadvertently an oppressor but I renounce my sin.' If you are an oppressor it's your job to shut up and sit in the corner. It's your job to hand over your power. You also need punishing, perhaps, if you take this idea to absolute extremes - threatening with violence, assaulting, eliminating, even? Look at Twitter handles. One vocal American actress had on hers for a long while (it might be there still) - 'I punch Nazis'. It's vital we are segregated by this label 'cis' so we can have some of the power we've gained over the last 50 years stripped from us.

It just interested me to think about it.

It’s a made up bullshit word

Woman = adult human female

@RealDinosaurofBarnardCastle

It’s a made up bullshit word

Woman = adult human female

'Cis' is a Latin word which is the opposite of 'trans'. I'm not sure that it's made up.

Just as short women and tall women are both women, but the adjective simply describes different sub-categories of women, cis women and trans women are both women, and those adjectives simply describe different sub-categories of women.

Say what just passingthrough

Say what ?

What you on about

What’s Latin go to do with it ?

What’s Latin go to do with the word woman

🤣🤣

@littlbrowndog

Say what just passingthrough

Say what ?

What you on about

What’s Latin go to do with it ?

What’s Latin go to do with the word woman

🤣🤣

The post that I quoted suggested that 'cis' was a "made up bullshit word". I responded to point out that it was not a made-up word, because it is a Latin word, being the opposite of 'trans'.

This is why the whole identity movement is crashing so badly.

Once it moved into controlling language it was dead in the water.

@Eucalyptustrees

This is why the whole identity movement is crashing so badly.

Once it moved into controlling language it was dead in the water.

Who is trying to control language? People simply use 'cis' as an adjective which means the opposite of 'trans', and some people have decided that it is a grievous insult. Nobody is trying to control language.

Ha ha yes I had the exact same conversation whilst I was explaining to my mum what ‘cis’ was
We both laughed - but if there is only women no matter the biology. Cis would not exist. Definite own goal!

Ah. This is ready OP. And I'd appreciate this as clever very clever if it wasn't fucking us over.

It went.

1. Trans women and cis women are just subgroups of women. Like black women lesbian women etc. Cis is no big deal. It's just to differentiate. Cis/ trans.

1. Any female without a tran identity is cis. Full stop. No having their stared gender id (and most especially claiming but to have no such feelings) are irrelevant. If others say you're cis that's what you are.

Oh and obv cisc women have massive privilege over trans women. So shut up. You are cis and the oppressor. Back off and do what you're told.

1. Trans women are and always have been women. Girls.

Also female always. Sex in census, female. ID as cis. Female from birth etc.

And thus we see the following phasing emerging-

Women and Cis women.

Female going so no words to describe us as a group at all. Only acceptable terms have the effect of thinking of us as not one group as a whole, but to see us as unlinked sub sub groups-

Menstruators
Ovulators
Bodies with vaginas
Gestators
Birthing people
Etc etc.

No overall term for all those born to 'it's a girl' in the whole world, 3 billion- ish women and girls.
Thus. Separate groups, different issues. Much more difficult to do or say anything to talk about this all as a whole IE what used to be called women's issues. Issues that effect women and girls. And not just related to biology. If can't use those words for all female people. Then saying things like sexual violence against women and girls globally. Either includes males. Or needs to be rephrased to people with vaginas or similar.
Reluctance so far to use the new language in those type of situations even amongst the main champions of the language. Will take longer to be seen as acceptable generally as obv vv crass.

So there, the steps that have taken place.

Women and Cis women.

Clever. Appalling.

Just as short women and tall women are both women, but the adjective simply describes different sub-categories of women, cis women and trans women are both women, and those adjectives simply describe different sub-categories of women

What makes trans women actually women in the same way that ‘CIS’ women are women? What is it that makes somebody belong to the category of woman, CIs woman or trans woman? Because we already have a definition for “woman” which also nicely encompasses 95% of cis women too. The maybe 5% of women who do not consider themselves cis women but trans men do not get to relabel the other 95% and the transwomen who want to opt into the category women without any of the necessary criteria for them to actually belong there don’t get to rename us to suit their agenda either.

If they want to call themselves TW, TM, NB or any other name they like, knock themselves out. They don’t get to call us anything which doesn’t expressly describe the way WE IDENTIFY! GC feminists do not accept the label cis in the same way that TW do not accept the label man. It may be factually correct but they do not identify that way. So please just FFs stop with the cis crap. I’m not a cis woman, I don’t identify as one and therefore I’m NOT one. Im a woman. Just that. No other label needed. I don’t identify as a white woman, or an able bodied woman, despite those also being factually correct. And I won’t be signing off my emails with a long list of things I’m not, or declaring my identity as heterosexual or suffering with an autoimmune condition, despite those also being much bigger parts of my life than whether or not my innate sense of womanhood (whatever the fuck that is) matches up with my tits and ovaries.

People simply use 'cis' as an adjective which means the opposite of 'trans'

"People* don't. Gender identity fans do.

Ha ha again an own goal here…
some people have decided that it is a grievous insult. Nobody is trying to control language. that is a great example of gas lighting control. Some people - you mean the ones (women) who have been ordered to name themselves cis instead, whether on forms or conversation - by those not women or cis or whatever - cannot even express that they don’t like it?!

@Eucalyptustrees

People simply use 'cis' as an adjective which means the opposite of 'trans'

"People* don't. Gender identity fans do.

Well I agree and my mum thought that the world had gone insane!

I don’t think she’s wrong. 😊

Agree @NiceGerbil

I did laugh with my mum. Most of the world don’t know they are being referred to like this!

However on a recent equalities form it asked if I was cis. So… it’s no joke really. I was so angry. It basically meant women weren’t being counted for equality purposes anymore. And no one cares!

It sets up a hierarchy in the competitive victim stakes.

I have Cis Privilege
While Trans women are victim of that.
And cannot possibly have that status compromised by any relationship with male privilege.

I dunno. When I first read about the Cis label I could see that on one level it removed the discrepancy between ‘normal / default’ and ‘other’, and in the context text of objective discussion, was reasonable.

The total lack of objective discussion has made me 100% against using the term to describe myself.

@JustPassingThrough3 and @DadJoke if cis women and trans women are both subcategories of woman, how do you categorise woman?

One of my pro gender friends explained to me that trans women are male bodied with a “womanly identity”,and cis women are female bodied with a “womanly identity”. But then she also conceded that some cis women don’t feel they have a womanly identity so are women by virtue of being female. If that’s the case, there is exactly no overlap between female women and male women! In order to say that trans women are a subset of women, you need to define “woman” in such a way that both cis and trans women have something in common. That thing can’t be bodily. So it has to be mental. The fact that a large chunk of women say they lack a gender essence or identity renders the search for a definition of woman that unifies cis and trans women futile. This is why I think a rhetorical trick has to be played - if you are apt to answer “yes” to the question “are you a woman?” Then bingo , you have a womanly identity. But this doesn’t follow because answering yes to a question is just a behaviour and not necessarily evidence that one has a womanly mental state or womanly identity. This theory would be correct if the ONLY reason a person was apt to say they are a woman is if they have a womanly gender identity - and there seems to be no reason to believe that is so.

The problem I have with trans theory is on the surface it displays a certain degree of “truthiness”. It seems plausible. But when you dig into a bit it’s full of massive logical holes. It’s a bit like trying to reconcile a world of suffering with an omnipotent, omniscient god… it just doesn’t make much sense.

The post that I quoted suggested that 'cis' was a "made up bullshit word". I responded to point out that it was not a made-up word, because it is a Latin word, being the opposite of 'trans'.

You keep saying this.

Can you please define the word cis as a Latin word (and if you would, what pronunciation system you use) without, at any point, using the word "trans".

I'm not going to ask you to define it in Latin. English will do. Just without saying the word "trans".

Agree re-

'People simply use 'cis' as an adjective which means the opposite of 'trans''

Is clearly obviously not true.

Cis women have been positioned as having huge privilege over trans women.

Many examples that I've seen of how difficult it is for trans women- worse than others esp 'cis' women.

Cite things that have happened to women forever. With zero awareness of their ignorance or just how crass it is.

Eg mobile.twitter.com/ryanjohnbutcher/status/942714839109128192?s=20

And any woman who disagrees IS cis irrespective of stated ID. Including obv none. (Agender in gender speak).

I have seen it said that X people (X= anyone female who thinks sex > gender id) may well CLAIM to have no gender etc. Any woman who says that is probably a bigot. Denying they are cis is a big clue / confirmation. Whatever they say they ARE cis.

+++ plenty of instances with various insults , violent intentions expressed towards 'the cis'.

So....

At least we're not truscum eh? Possibly hated even more than women who say no. Fellow transpeople. Not listened to, ever. To see and what they think and why. Often afaik been transitioned for years and full surgery. Not cis obv. Can't be trans obv because the worst of the worst. Scum. Yep. Scum.

Based on a talk given to the CPGB’s Summer Communist University

If you are promoting trans rights orthodoxy - arguing that most female people are ‘cis’, and that being a woman is about having feminine feelings of submissiveness - you are buying liberty for only a few, while slapping chains on the rest of us.

weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1363/orthodoxy-and-its-discontents/

The oh it's fine it means opposite. That's all. Chemistry!

Outside of chemistry it is used in many words to mean travelling/ moving from> to.
Trans-siberian express. Transatlantic liner. Transplant. Transcribe. Etc.

Never cis though....

@NiceGerbil

The oh it's fine it means opposite. That's all. Chemistry!

Outside of chemistry it is used in many words to mean travelling/ moving from> to.
Trans-siberian express. Transatlantic liner. Transplant. Transcribe. Etc.

Never cis though....

Yes... Cis is the opposite of one of the meanings of trans, in the chemical usage.

But I'm pretty sure the origins of 'trans' in the context of 'transwomen' comes from dysphoric males transitioning - the trans- prefix which has no Cis- equivalent. And note it is a prefix not a separate word in this case so 'transwoman' rather than 'trans woman' is correct, just like in 'transgender'.

Google has some! Eg cisoid, cisleithan...

Either way cis isn't a word generally understood etc....

And yet.

1. Suddenly the 3 billion women and girls in the world who have never heard of/ have no interest in/ are baffled by being known as cis automatically. Thread recently I was advised by an advocate of the new language that all women in Uighar camps were going to be cis. It was seen as funny to imagine otherwise... Ha ha? The way this all works globally outside here USA etc is of ZERO interest, thought, interest, anything.

1. Any woman who does not agree is cis. The end.

1. 'The Cis' etc is linked invariably to insults and worse

And MOST IMPORTANTLY.

The utter barefaced arrogance to TELL women and girls approx 3 billion half the population that they need to accept this PLUS accept being referred to by our cunts etc.

I mean. WTAF? Seriously. Why should we all do that? Say of yeah. Women girls includes penis people. That's new! Fine. No probs having all that changed. No need for terms like that anyway. If need to refer to us, referring to our vaginas is fine! Yep. If there's one things women and girls want it's for society to be constantly reminded that when they want to talk about us, to think about our reproductive organs etc.

Cunts breeders bleeders. Yay!!!!

Google has some! Eg cisoid, cisleithan...

Cissoid isn't constructed from the Latin 'Cis' , it's Greek 'Ivy like'. Cisleithian looks to be like another one 'cisalpine' - the Latin prefix is used in geography as well as chemistry.

cis women and trans women are both women, and those adjectives simply describe different sub-categories of women.

I am the pope. I am the pope. I really am the pope. I am, I am, I am, I am, I am the pope. No one else is the pope except me. I am the pope, the only pope.

No. Doesn't matter how often you repeat it, it doesn't become true. And everyone knows that, even if they don't dare say so.