The cancellation of women is bigger than a culture war (Tory MP in the Telegraph)

[ItsRainingProstateOwners]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/11/cancellation-women-bigger-culture-war/

Miriam Cates is Conservative MP for Penistone and Stockbridge.

They didn't proceed with it.

My view.

Zero interest to their core voters.

Zero appetite for getting in the middle of trans activists and allies, and a bunch of women. Angry shouty polarised debate. PITA.

Easier to say going to put this on back burner and get left alone. Or at least hassled less.

Tory voters big segment of traditional values types, loads of elderly people who may (?) be more likely to take a dim view of stepping outside gender role. Why take that risk?

Probably massive row internally if looked like going ahead as plenty of Tory women are outspoken and no nonsense types. The sort of women you really think twice before fucking with. Why risk that when. This is not an issue they give a toss about?

• More.

It is imo an error to think Tories are on side of women here. Neutral I'd say.

And at the moment. Neutral looks insanely positive next to all the other parties on this. Who are broadcasting that they don't GAF about women and girls through a huge speaker system at full volume, 24/7.

As I say women are adults and can make our own sodding decisions about who to vote for.

I'm a screaming lefty by nature, always have been. My urge to comment that personally I don't think the conservative party centrally have any interest in this at all. And their actions have been. Ok this seems to be a thing wanted. Don't care either way. Let's get it moving. Oh shit this is a nightmare. Not even interested. Back off and step away.

Is what has happened rather than a deliberate move iyswim.

But shouldn't politicians listen to the concerns of the population and act accordingly? Isn't that the essence of democracy and representation of the people? You write it as if they're doing something shifty. 😄

I agree that they absolutely should NightlyStroll, but they are politicians and can be very selective as to what they hear or how much credence they give it. What they hear loudest and respond to is what will win them votes and ultimately power, at least that's what the Tories seem to do and are doing, Labour seem to be hearing what is being shouted loudest by a very vocal and authoritarian few and ignoring everything else.

I'm just cynical where politicians of every stripe are concerned because after all they're politicians.

''But shouldn't politicians listen to the concerns of the population and act accordingly? Isn't that the essence of democracy and representation of the people? You write it as if they're doing something shifty.'

You must know that's not how it works at all, I'm sure.

Would be impossible anyway.

Different people want different things. Have different beliefs about what is important and what is a waste of money.

The public are the opposite of a United voice!

Link to SDP policy on TW and sex based rights; I would be very interested what those who feel politically homeless think about this. Thanks.

sdp.org.uk/policies/transgender-and-biological-sex-based-rights/

Thanks Jux will read policies.

Are they related to the old sdp do you know?

I did look before but went to the people page to see if anyone i know of. And was put off immediately by it being so bloke heavy.

My own bias maybe. But OTOH. been around a long time and experience counts for a lot.

@NiceGerbil.
You must know that's not how it works at all, I'm sure.

It worked like that over school meals during the holidays. Public pressure does work.

One example does not negate the fact that the public as a group just aren't going to agree on anything.

If they did we'd only need one political party.

Holiday FSM started during covid I think? It was rashford who got them.

Not the public. The public were v divided on it.

Usual division.

Help those in need
Vs
Incentivise to stand on own two feet.

You aren't seriously arguing the earlier point surely?

I know the Swiss are a total democracy. Referendum on changes. Not sure the details but I don't know anywhere else that works like that.

NiceGerbil I'm not sure what your point is. And I was describing my own views above so I'm not sure how that trivialises anything. I've seen plenty of women swear they would never vote Tory, I used to be one of them.

It's not about 'swearing' and 'nasty party'. That's trivialising the depth of feeling that those people both left and right have about what is the best thing for society.

Great article. I'll email to say thank you too, my mum's constituency. It's 'Penny-stone' thankfully, not how it looks. I went to school there! Many, many, many years ago...

For those of you wanting to read the whole article it's on her website miriamcates.org.uk

The "they don't really care" argument is funny because really, a party isn't a person with a heart and mind. It doesn't care about anything.

Individuals within parties can care and there are MPs in both the LP and CP who really have strong convictions, including about this issue. Is anyone really saying the MP who wrote this doesn't care? Because she ,and others who have spoken out publicly or in person to people are real people who care about issues.

The parties in some sense encompass these individual feelings but also are something else. There is something like a drive to create a kind of vision or put a stamp on society. For Conservatives that seems more pragmatic, partly at least because that kind of pragmatism about how human society works is built into their ideology. For the LP at the moment it's a sort of pure utopian vision, which is divorced from how real people behave, and how the world is. So - they are disadvantaged when it comes to being elected.

But caring or not caring isn't something an entity like a party can do.

Lobster you are agreeing with me.

So. Good?

People tend to say this though, that the parties don't care, as if it is an indictment. And they often seem to imply that individuals within the parties don't care.

Caring is just the wrong word to use, is the real problem. The CP seems to have a number of MPs who get this, a few who really feel strongly about it, and they are also responsive to voters caring about it. So, it is being reflected in their actions and policy initiatives.

The LP has many MPs that seem to care about something else and seem to be responding to voters who do to, and are suppressing those who care about this, so that's reflected in their policy ideas.

Like I said you're agreeing with me.

Understand not reading all posts. I mean you don't need to! I agree.

I wasn't necessarily just responding to your post. People often comment that the Tories don't really care about women's issues. The implication being that Labour does, I guess, or someone does, anyway.

It's funny, if it wasn't for our government's calamitous response to Covid I'd very likely be a fully paid up member of the Conservative Party right now.

And this is coming from a lifelong leftie.

@ikeairgin Workers Party of GB

Yes! That's where my vote will be going. They had a strong showing in that by-election too.

@NandJ

It's funny, if it wasn't for our government's calamitous response to Covid I'd very likely be a fully paid up member of the Conservative Party right now.

And this is coming from a lifelong leftie.

Really?

Just covid? Nothing else they've done while in power?

As a lifelong leftie that can't be all!

Yep!

Covid aside, I'm now a single-issue voter.

And even without them capitulating to the TRA lobby, Sir Starmer's Labour Party has nothing to offer. Quite possibly the worst LOTO there's been.

What a seriously excellent article. So clear.

That was an impressively clear article.

Still not going to vote Tory. For one thing, my MP is a corrupt, attention-seeking toad. He’s only in because he has the Conservative party ticket. From what I hear about his divorce, he has no respect for women.

I’m hoping for a complete turn-around on this issue before another election.

@SirSamuelVimes

Trick to access articles if using your phone - click the link,then immediately put your airplane mode on. The article will load but (if you are quick enough) the blocky thing that comes up over the top of the page won't have time to do so.

You do have to be mega quick though!

OMG I was dubious but it works! Thanks Sirsam

Received an email back from Mariam today - she's had to do a generic one about the article as she's had so much correspondence about it. That's a good sign.

She suggested sending the article to my own MP and asking their stance on the issue. I think I will.

• Miriam, sorry - brain on autopilot