My post on the person suing NHS was taken down

[Tesla73]

So I am posting it again with no comment

www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/transgender-woman-rowley-regis-sue-21817673

@Flapjak

If its not a medical condition, or diagnosed gender dysphoria then surgery shouldnt be available on the NHS.

Yup.

Suing the NHS for not giving them 'treatment' fast enough for something that's now not recognised as an illness or disorder.

Who else would be entitled to get their breasts removed or enlarged, or cosmetic facial surgery free on the NHS ''just 'cause''?

My son waited 18 months for an ASD first appointment, didn't occur to me to sue. There isn't enough money/staff so suing the NHS doesn't seem like it would help really does it. Perhaps raising money for the NHS would be a better route to go down - guess that wouldn't pay their private surgery bill though.

I’m asking for what we are entitled to, what everybody else already has and has had for many years.

What healthcare are people who identify as transgender being denied which is provided for everyone else?

Being transgender is not a medical condition. The NHS doesn't have to provide treatment for this since there is no medical condition to treat.

Tal45 thank you for that, I was going to ask what the wait time was.

In America health insurance covers a lot of ‘treatment’ that males want, and because they have insurance, they get the procedures. Over here our NHS is already under huge pressure and cannot cope with peoples desires….unless it is a medical procedure it just won’t get priority.

I’m almost glad they are suing as shows how batshit crazy the situation is

I have no words.

As I understand it these treatments are only cosmetic i.e. making non functioning body parts that are just aesthetics. This shouldn’t be done on the NHS anyway?

I will repost my post from the earlier thread:

Apparently only "haters" think the NHS should prioritise cancer patients. How very typically TRA.

I will add, it reminds me of this tone deaf campaign that breast cancer sufferers were being prioritised over FTM trans people for breast surgery.

mobile.twitter.com/tobysinbad/status/1041589969410838529?lang=en

That article is confused and confusing. Unfortunately by lumping together adults and children, their argument got a little wonky. Also, I think this is where we might start seeing the problem that the doctrine of gender identity is going to cause those who suffer gender dysphoria.

The doctrine is at the root of concerted efforts to demedicalise/depathologise being trans. If being trans is not a medical condition, an underfunded and understaffed healthcare system cannot justify putting extra funding into "trans healthcare".

In the US, they were very careful to ensure gender dysphoria was reclassified from a mental health issue to a sexual health issue in order to ensure that insurance companies would still cover it.

But that mechanism doesn't work here, because we have a different system.

Our system categorises accutely life-threatening, longer term life-saving and life-improving (I'm sure there's proper names for that). And treats almost all free at the point of care (with some exceptions for immigrants and tourists/business travellers).

So what are these patients asking for? Hormones, various cosmetic surgeries, but these are all about appearance. Life-improving. So why would the NHS put extra funding in? Distress? I know patients who had mental health issues because certain parts of their body were not as they felt they should be. Causing anxieties, depression and distress, often debilitating and affecting their day-to-day life. They still don't get a right to have cosmetic surgery on the NHS.

And it's wrong to say that they're just asking for the same treatment as everyone else and asking for what everyone else is entitled to. They're not. The NHS must prioritise by design. We don't all have the exact same right to treatment. Life threatening conditions and injuries take precedence. Then life-saving and then we get to life-improving.

And in the latter category are a whole range of elective surgeries and treatments (elective here just means it's not an emergency but scheduled in advance). And the NHS gets to these procedures as they are able, but life-saving ones are prioritised. Yes, we have waiting list targets, but those are frequently missed. That's true across all fields. Especially because funds are an issue.

Hence the comments perceiving this lawsuit in less than favourable terms.

wonder if the posters here who are on waiting lists or had cancellations could contact GLP to ask for help and see what their response is

@Flapjak

If its not a medical condition, or diagnosed gender dysphoria then surgery shouldnt be available on the NHS.

Surely these people suing don't have a leg to stand on? All of trans ideology says that you are not in the wrong body, you don't need to modify yourself to change gender.

The BMA have said it's not a medical condition. In any case, the NHS can't prescribe puberty blockers to children which seems to be the crux of their case. They can't possibly win, what are they thinking?

@Toseland

As I understand it these treatments are only cosmetic i.e. making non functioning body parts that are just aesthetics. This shouldn’t be done on the NHS anyway?

I believe—from the article—that there was also mention of starting children on the puberty blockers as being delayed.

I'll post my original post too.

As a comparison, here's the guidance on breast reduction, which I know a lot of women have been denied on the NHS, even when they are in real pain.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/breast-reduction-on-the-nhs/

I thought these quotes were fairly pertinent.

"if it's done to improve appearance rather than for health reasons, it's not normally available on the NHS. Instead, you'll need to pay for the procedure privately."

"The availability of breast reduction surgery on the NHS varies, depending on the eligibility criteria decided by your local clinical commissioning group (CCG)."

"Some CCGs do not fund breast reduction surgery at all, and others fund it selectively if you fulfil certain criteria."

"It's sometimes possible to reduce problems caused by having large breasts without the need for surgery... Breast reduction surgery will usually only be available on the NHS if you have first tried alternative measures."

But, I thought being trans wasn't a mental illness/medical condition?

I thought it was exactly the same as being gay?

In which case why would the NHS need to get involved at all...?

Am I allowed an eye roll ?

Free to pay for it themselves if they're that unhappy with the wait. It's not a necessary or life saving procedure, they can wait like others.

Who else would be entitled to get their breasts removed or enlarged, or cosmetic facial surgery free on the NHS ''just 'cause''?

Breast reduction surgery is available on the NHS. I had breast reduction surgery in my early twenties (before the magic age of 25 when lots of people on here say any kind of surgery like that should be allowed because apparently that's too young to know your own mind) because I had balance problems, back pain and was generally massively unhappy with my shape. Surgery was utterly life changing. The loss of my much vaunted 'perfectly healthy breasts' let me wear normal sized clothes, do exercise, dance without falling over, sleep on my back, and massively positively impacted my confidence. I just checked and waiting lists for breast reduction surgery for the same kind of reasons as mine is still available on the NHS with a slightly shorter waiting time than trans top surgery (as they need to get through the additional hurdle of the gender clinic referral first).

Cosmetic facial surgery is also available on the NHS for things like disfiguring injuries, or tattoos such as swastikas from former bad life choices etc. Actually also really important life affirming stuff.

Trans people are not unique at all in this respect. The NHS has long acknowledged that some surgeries might not be technically life saving but are hugely important and shouldn't be the preserve of the wealthy who can afford private medicine.

"It's sometimes possible to reduce problems caused by having large breasts without the need for surgery... Breast reduction surgery will usually only be available on the NHS if you have first tried alternative measures."

They mean "have you tried dieting or a better bra". That's all anyone I know who had the surgery was asked. We all had breasts which were a G cup and above and had to get to a healthy BMI minimum.

If breast reduction surgery is being cut back in some areas that's utterly shitty and I would utterly support someone suing for that.

About 20 years ago, aged 39, I was provisionally diagnosed with Cancer - either Myeloma or Lymphoma, diagnosis to be confirmed by biopsy. Unfortunately it took an unacceptably long time - 5 months - for the biopsy to happen. I know that the biopsy waiting time was unacceptably long because my GP told me so in no uncertain terms, angry herself at the fact that my case had fallen between two clinics, (apparently a bureaucratic cock-up that could have killed me; Myeloma, particularly, being both a virulent form of cancer and having, at the time, quite terrifying survival rates), apologising profusely and telling me not only that I could, but that I probably should, sue the NHS. Luckily the biopsy came back to tell me that what was attacking me was not Cancer at all, but a pretty rare though still rather vicious autoimmune disease called Sarcoidosis. Did I sue the NHS? No, dear reader, did I buggery.

IT'S THE NHS.

It saves mores lives on less money with the most underappreciated staff than any other healthcare system, and I might have had 9 or 10 months of terror and existential crisis, but thanks to that much maligned (by entitled morons, anyway) organisation I'm still here to be rendered apoplectically speechless with rage at the narcissistic fools who think their essentially cosmetic procedures are more urgent than clearing those same cancer waiting lists.

I'm slowly growing - temporarily - blind at the moment, actually; waiting nearly 2 years for a simple procedure to clear up minor complications after cataract surgery. I'm not, however, enlisting the fragrant Jolyon Maugham to barrack Nottingham Queens Medical Centre on my behalf. I'm patiently waiting (whilst admittedly squinting quite a lot) whilst one of the finest achievements of any socialist government on the planet struggles back up onto its knees after a bloody global pandemic. The narcissistic rage that impels these idiots into women's safe spaces is exactly the same toddler "Me Me Me" that thinks their boob jobs are somehow more urgent than someone else's triple bypass surgery.

Sorry about the rant, but... No, I take that back, I'm not sorry at all. Dangerous bloody morons, the lot of them.

😶

My son has had some struggles with his mental health and when he was at his worst our very sympathetic GP referred him to our local CAMHS but told me they would only see him if he had actually attempted suicide. Funnily enough my reaction wasn’t to sue the NHS which desperately needs more funding in this area.

@CharlieParley

That article is confused and confusing. Unfortunately by lumping together adults and children, their argument got a little wonky. Also, I think this is where we might start seeing the problem that the doctrine of gender identity is going to cause those who suffer gender dysphoria.

The doctrine is at the root of concerted efforts to demedicalise/depathologise being trans. If being trans is not a medical condition, an underfunded and understaffed healthcare system cannot justify putting extra funding into "trans healthcare".

In the US, they were very careful to ensure gender dysphoria was reclassified from a mental health issue to a sexual health issue in order to ensure that insurance companies would still cover it.

But that mechanism doesn't work here, because we have a different system.

Our system categorises accutely life-threatening, longer term life-saving and life-improving (I'm sure there's proper names for that). And treats almost all free at the point of care (with some exceptions for immigrants and tourists/business travellers).

So what are these patients asking for? Hormones, various cosmetic surgeries, but these are all about appearance. Life-improving. So why would the NHS put extra funding in? Distress? I know patients who had mental health issues because certain parts of their body were not as they felt they should be. Causing anxieties, depression and distress, often debilitating and affecting their day-to-day life. They still don't get a right to have cosmetic surgery on the NHS.

And it's wrong to say that they're just asking for the same treatment as everyone else and asking for what everyone else is entitled to. They're not. The NHS must prioritise by design. We don't all have the exact same right to treatment. Life threatening conditions and injuries take precedence. Then life-saving and then we get to life-improving.

And in the latter category are a whole range of elective surgeries and treatments (elective here just means it's not an emergency but scheduled in advance). And the NHS gets to these procedures as they are able, but life-saving ones are prioritised. Yes, we have waiting list targets, but those are frequently missed. That's true across all fields. Especially because funds are an issue.

Hence the comments perceiving this lawsuit in less than favourable terms.

What would be really useful, in that case, is if it all went to court, and the NHS were backed up by the law.

It would stop anyone else moaning that they can't get life improving surgery ahead of people's cancer treatment.

I liked the comment underneath the article:

'My self harming, suicidal, Autistic, ADHD daughter is on a two year waiting list to see CAMHS. We have spent thousand on private treatment. If being trans is no longer considered a medical condition then why are services being provided on the NHS? Unless there is trauma or something surely most of it is cosmetic?'

Welcome to being a woman! Waiting ages for surgery on your reproductive organs.

@Tesla73

wonder if the posters here who are on waiting lists or had cancellations could contact GLP to ask for help and see what their response is

I am disabled and was told kicked off the waiting list due to the start of the pandemic. I couldn’t cope waiting as my issues were causing a lot of distressing physical pain. I paid for major surgery myself.