I had the best discussion with a friend and his female partner last night

[Bigeggsinapackoften]

Friend I’ve worked with in the past and keep in loose touch with.

His partner I hadn’t met before and we ended up back at mine after a meal out.

She’s my age (50s) and it was an absolute revelation.

We agreed we would be respectful of whatever pronouns someone wished us to use, we agreed we had every sympathy for those who suffer from gender dysphoria.

But we also agreed that trans people were trans people not actual women or actual men and that there were red lines in terms of access to female spaces.

And that the term living as a woman was different for trans women especially later transitioned because they didn’t have years upon years of female lived experience as youngsters and young younger women. And neither of us feel particularly like a woman.

It’s the first time in real life I’ve been able to express a gender critical view so openly and it was just fantastic

There’s no real point to this post it was just great and I’m going to keep in touch with her.

And the men shut up and let us talk. They watched shite tele in the living room and we decamped to the sofa in my study.

I honestly think it's a more commonly held view than we think.

A bunch of female gps I know through school drop offs occasionally mention hints about increasing referrals for gd to much eye rolling but obvious concern that they have to take this seriously for the patient and the cognitive dissonance they have to use.

A pharmacist commented that we probably should be worrying more about our not yet teens accessing puberty blockers than marijuana when we had a chat about "all that scary teen stuff."

Its nice to feel heard though.

It is nice to feel heard. And it was just nice to be able to discuss it openly.

And also nice that the blokes just deferred to us and understood that they didn’t “get” it in the same way we did.

Almost all people think this. Because it is based on logic and reason and reality. I think the issue is much less that the majority think along the TRA lines and much more the repression is speech. So good sign in terms of that!

That sounds like a breath of fresh air. I agree with everything you say.

I'm mid 50s and surrounded by 25-35 year old women at work who just don't get it. One was ranting how ridiculous it was that parents were getting upset about gender neutral toilets being introduced at their child's school. When I tried to explain the reasons for this not being a good idea I was met with wide eyed shocked silence.

Please can I come and sit on the sofa in your study? I'll bring the wine!

I’ll bring posh crisps.

Please do!! It was just so refreshing.

I am similarly surrounded by early 20s some people and they just don’t get it - and my other friends are just not bothered by it. It bloody did my heart good.

I had a similar discussion with my work colleagues and they all got it.
It was mentioned how the men to female, without exception, all dress as caricatures of women. Looking more like they are going to a drag show than to work in any workplace I've ever worked.

We talked about drag (she’s a woman of colour) and how could it be ok when black face wasn’t.

I’ve made a new friend which I didn’t expect. 😁

I would anticipate I could have a similar conversation with pretty much 95% of my female friends/associates. I also suspect that most of them wouldn’t have a clue this was even a ‘thing’’ so I can’t see it coming up in a discussion, but you never know.

Actually that’s a good point. It came up because of Prof Stock - I don’t know that it would’ve come up otherwise

As a pp said most people think this. I'm very vocal amongst my friends because I've had 2 dds who have been told by schools that they must have a gender id. Every one i speak to who is my age agrees with me. Most People in their late teens/early 20s however have totally bought into the ideology.

Lucky you. Apart from my husband I don't know a single person who I can discuss this topic so openly. When I have tried to get discussion going, the responses are at best nebulous / don't really get the issues - to downright not that much interest at all.

Good for you OP, it’s so nice when you can talk sense in real life and not be afraid of the repercussions.

I agree that many people still don’t see the problems, or think it’s niche issue. But that’s why we need to keep talking about this, because the activists think they can bully us into silence, and politicians think that it’s just a few hysterical feminists who can be ignored.

The reality is that once people know what’s actually happening in the background and the far reaching implications of this, they are usually horrified. We just need to keep talking.

Unfortunately though, men do need to get this.

This isn't just our "problem to fix."

These are men causing the problem and I wish more men would stand up and argue for us.

Sorry I was unclear I meant in terms of lived experience they very much get it and we’re on board and supportive.

@FFSFFSFFS

Almost all people think this. Because it is based on logic and reason and reality. I think the issue is much less that the majority think along the TRA lines and much more the repression is speech. So good sign in terms of that!

I'm not sure almost all people think this myself. I've had to shut up a few times because the people I was with were total TWAW no debate. Including my brother.

Vast majority of people in real life think this way

Lovely to hear how a bunch of non-trans people got together to discuss how to keep the transes in their place. Good for you.

I've said this before on here but I was at an event for female people. Wide range from 30s to 80s. Someone brought up this subject and I was astonished at how aware they all were about everything from "people with cervices" to Barbie Kardashian. They all were furious.

@BlueberryCheezecake

Lovely to hear how a bunch of non-trans people got together to discuss how to keep the transes in their place. Good for you.

It's not about trans people. It's about the defence of reality, free speech and ensuring equality for all. Not prioritising one group above all else.

Lovely to hear how a group of non - women got together to discuss how to keep women in their place.

There fixed it for you BlueberryCheezecake

Why oh why the obsession that two people can spend a whole evening talking about what trans people are or are not.

I have just had a long discussion with a neighbour about the coming economic catastrophe, poverty, cancer and death.

@Gottalife

Why oh why the obsession that two people can spend a whole evening talking about what trans people are or are not.

I have just had a long discussion with a neighbour about the coming economic catastrophe, poverty, cancer and death.

Or maybe at a time when women are renamed, silenced and told that men are now women when they say they are by hostile bullies, a woman is delighted to speak freely without male censorship about what matters to women.

@JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn

That sounds like a breath of fresh air. I agree with everything you say.

I'm mid 50s and surrounded by 25-35 year old women at work who just don't get it. One was ranting how ridiculous it was that parents were getting upset about gender neutral toilets being introduced at their child's school. When I tried to explain the reasons for this not being a good idea I was met with wide eyed shocked silence.

Please can I come and sit on the sofa in your study? I'll bring the wine!

I think a lot of people my own age (Millennial) really haven't thought any of this through properly. It's a combination of the pressure to #bekind, to be self-sacrificing, along with some of them never having encountered male malevolence or simply never joining the dots.

@Gottalife

Why oh why the obsession that two people can spend a whole evening talking about what trans people are or are not.

I have just had a long discussion with a neighbour about the coming economic catastrophe, poverty, cancer and death.

I'm so happy for you @Gottalife .

EVERYTHING else is more important than women's rights and what effects them, isn't it? Well done you for talking about such important, expansive, global issues.

We women just have candyfloss for brains and maybe silly bitches here on this women should just shut up and start knitting.