The Conservatives are going to lump feminism in as part of 'identity politics' and dump it all.

[PermanentTemporary]

Just noting that both Carrie Symons and Dominic Raab took care to say that they didnt agree with feminists at the conference. That won't have been accidental.

Sorry what are you refering to?

Carrie Johnson supports trans rights. Many feminists do too. Not all feminists are exclusionary.

If feminism isn't about females it is pointless

Why are trans activists aligning with Conservatives???

You mean, not all feminists are exclusionary feminists.

@CorrBlimeyGG

Carrie Johnson supports trans rights. Many feminists do too. Not all feminists are exclusionary.

I doubt you'll find anyone here who doesn't support trans rights. While recognising that they are not the same thing as women's rights.

I don't think you can say that because some conservatives aren't agreeing with some feminists that they will throw out every feminist idea or policy.

And for that matter, where feminism has been really influenced by identity politics, maybe it would not be so bad to lose that stuff. Leaving the non-identity politics feminism to be discussed seriously, or at least the kinds of policy that it might inspire.

Carrie Johnson supports trans rights. Many feminists do too.

Most feminists, I should think. Trans people should have the right not to be attacked or harrassed, the right to dress as they please, change their name to whatever they please, the right to equal treatment in the workplace, the right to access spaces provided for the sex to which they belong etc. Same rights as everyone else, in other words.

I don't think it's correct to say that feminists don't support trans rights. I'm a feminist and I support many rights that trans people have. I don't support self-ID or the right to access single sex spaces reserved for the other sex.

Saying that feminists don't support trans rights is just providing screen shots to TRAs to splash around on Twitter.

@CorrBlimeyGG

Carrie Johnson supports trans rights. Many feminists do too. Not all feminists are exclusionary.

Anyone who says that hasn't a fucking clue what feminism is or what it is for.

The TERF slur is responsible for this. Being a feminist or an advocate of women's rights does not mean Trans Exclusionary. It's thrown about and isn't true. I fully support trans right, women's rights and will fight for same sex spaces and against self ID meaning anyone can go anywhere and sex means nothing. There is much muddled language going on by people who benefit from labelling us TERFs.

When has the Conservative party ever been feminist?

Look the minute anyway says TWANW they are viewed as being against trans rights. Obviously feminists aren't against anyone having their human rights but that isn't the way the phrase is used these days, sadly.

@CorrBlimeyGG

Carrie Johnson supports trans rights. Many feminists do too. Not all feminists are exclusionary.

What does that even mean? A lot of ridiculous word salad supposed to sound clever.

If you're pro excluding female people from female services to benefit male people just say so. Own it. Have some bloody guts.

Conservatives are a perfect match I'd have thought?

"No such thing as society only the individual" = trans ideology favours understanding individual identity over class oppression.

Equal opportunities as opposed to outcomes = we can choose to identify as men if we're not happy with what happens to women.

Capitalist, consumer society = medical transition creates lifelong patients, therefore money for big pharma. Gender stereotypes are re affirmed, therefore more pink toys for girls and transgirls, blue toys for boys and transboys (this results in people buying more over all).

Traditional values = trans ideology leaves the patriarchy undisturbed : transmen cannot inherit titles; gender non conforming and gay individuals are encouraged to swap stereotype boxes and identify as the opposite sex; gender remains (and is actually further enforced) as a system of oppressing women through harmful regressive standards and stereotypes of beauty, clothing, behaviour, status etc; dehumanising language (menstruators, cervix havers, birthing bodies etc) lessens the power of women to join as a class to oppose the patriarchy.

Feninism doesn't necessarily equal left wing, there are versions of feminism that fit quite well in right wing settings. It isn't very long since Theresa May wore a 'this is what a feminist looks like' T shirt.

Oh look

It turns out that everything that has happened in the last decade regarding the erosion of women's rights isn't somehow Kier Starmer's fault, but is possibly attributable to the party who have been in power for that entire time. Clue: not Labour.

I doubt it. Tory HQ will be monitoring the comments on articles in the Times, Telegraph and Daily Mail, which are overwhelmingly gender-critical. They have realised this is a wedge issue that they can use against Labour/the Lib Dems/SNP. But, at the same time, they want to keep a foot in the progressive camp, in case the wind changes - so Carrie is deployed. As she has no official standing, they can distance themselves from her if they wish.

I am under no illusions that Boris gives a flying fuck about women's rights but I don't think that the Tories are about to give up an issue that they can weaponise.

@Mum2021askingquestion

Oh look

It turns out that everything that has happened in the last decade regarding the erosion of women's rights isn't somehow Kier Starmer's fault, but is possibly attributable to the party who have been in power for that entire time. Clue: not Labour.

Much as I loathe the Tories I don’t think that’s entirely fair. They haven’t enacted self ID, they’ve banned schools from teaching the ridiculous notion that you can be ‘born in the wrong body’.

I think most of the erosion has come from a small but threatening lobby who have crept their vision into society via workplaces, university campuses and schools. With Stonewall and Mermaids as their HQ.

Conservatism doesn't necessarily mean individualism, or even individualist liberal economics, though that has been the alliance for a while. Any more than leftism means progressivism, which is in many case another form of liberalism. Even Thatcher in her famous quote wasn't really saying that the state has no function in society.

The more fundamental oppositions are between conservatism and liberalism, and leftism and liberalism. The fact that liberals have taken over both the leftist and conservative parties notwithstanding.

The point being that "choice" feminism, including around identity, belongs to both parties insofar as it appeals to the liberal elements. And is resisted in so far as there are other ideologies still present in those groups.

@CorrBlimeyGG

Carrie Johnson supports trans rights. Many feminists do too. Not all feminists are exclusionary.

feminism noun [ U ] politics uk /ˈfem.ɪ.nɪ.zəm/ us /ˈfem.ə.nɪ.zəm/ the belief that women should be allowed the same rights, power, and opportunities as men and be treated in the same way, or the set of activities intended to achieve this state:

Trouble is feminism gets purloined by too many hate groups.

PermanentTemporary
I still don't know what you're referring to. I haven't heard Carrie say anything against feminism or about dumping identity politics. Anyway she's not a politician unlike Liz Truss, Kemi Badenoch, etc.
Dominic Raab is on record as being against self id. If you're referring to the misogyny question - he's an idiot and always has been. I also have doubts about the usefulness of misogyny as a hate crime.
Putting aside the terminology I think that women's rights are also important to Conservatives, and we need to ensure they understand they matter at the ballot box.

@lazylinguist

Carrie Johnson supports trans rights. Many feminists do too.

Most feminists, I should think. Trans people should have the right not to be attacked or harrassed, the right to dress as they please, change their name to whatever they please, the right to equal treatment in the workplace, the right to access spaces provided for the sex to which they belong etc. Same rights as everyone else, in other words.

This is what I don't get. The only rights that trans people don't have are the sex-based rights belonging to the opposite sex. I have yet to hear a coherent explanation of "gender identity" let alone a coherent argument explaining why it is so important that it should be placed above (instead of) sex-based rights and protections.

I don't think it's clear just yet what the Conservatives are going to do. They do at least seem to have plurality of opinion on the issue.

Labour however have told women very clearly what they plan to do.