The Conservatives are going to lump feminism in as part of 'identity politics' and dump it all.

[PermanentTemporary]

Just noting that both Carrie Symons and Dominic Raab took care to say that they didnt agree with feminists at the conference. That won't have been accidental.

@CorrBlimeyGG

Carrie Johnson supports trans rights. Many feminists do too. Not all feminists are exclusionary.

Many feminists support trans rights

Transrights are not women's rights

Hth

The guardian are trying to suggest that the torys wont lose out if they abandon the separate support for women and trans rights as opposed to muddling them together

Apparently the Tory whips have offered Rosie Duffield a place on the Conservative benches if she likes. Not sure if the link will work
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/379bb0ca-2832-11ec-9d7f-240ccd0a3a50?shareToken=28d3d7110e1c5fda663b22ef1335da29

Go Rosie. Go put some socialism and actual feminism into the one remaining party that hasn't yet completely spat upon women.

From that article:
there was controversy over the decision to allow LGB Alliance, a lobby group, to set up a stall.

LGB Alliance was created in 2019 by former supporters of Stonewall, the LGBT rights charity

FFS! LGB Alliance is a charity supporting gay rights. Stonewall is a trans rights lobby group.

@CorrBlimeyGG

Carrie Johnson supports trans rights. Many feminists do too. Not all feminists are exclusionary.

The clue is the name. ‘Feminists’ argue for women’s rights.

You might as well argue that the RSPB should intersectionally support otters.

The tories are inviting Rosie duffield to join them?

Is this some sort of ostensibly behind-the-scenes support of gender critical women?

Because if it is, for fuck's sake, why can't they just come out and say it?

Why can't they just be upfront, instead of this odd gesture. It's like they're playing bloody games.

OP please can you elaborate?

Your title is vague and the post doesn't help.

'The Conservatives are going to lump feminism in as part of 'identity politics' and dump it all.'

Dump all what? Specifically.

How can they 'dump' a movement that exists and has existed independently of them?

They aren't exactly keen on feminism (amongst other things!). In general I mean not every individual. So they don't have anything to dump. Examples?

I find it unlikely they'll undo everything feminists have gained. Remove our right to vote? Legalise rape in marriage (only criminalised early 90s). Remove our right to take out loans?

The OP sounds big and interesting. But what do you actually mean?

On another thread these were my thoughts on the Tories on this..

@CorrBlimeyGG

Carrie Johnson supports trans rights. Many feminists do too. Not all feminists are exclusionary.

“Carrie Johnson supports trans rights. Many feminists do too. Not all ‘feminists’ are exclusionary feminists.”

Dominic Raab has long term form as a borderline MRA regardless of any trans issues.
www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/dominic-raab-attitude-towards-woman-and-gender

Honestly, I think that on this issue there is very little difference between Dominic Raab and many (most?) left wing men.

They don’t believe it should be acknowledged that women as group need specific rights that men don’t and they view feminism as a threat.

The only difference is he doesn’t feel so obliged to pretend he supports feminism.

LaetitiaASD

This is what I don't get. The only rights that trans people don't have are the sex-based rights belonging to the opposite sex. I have yet to hear a coherent explanation of "gender identity" let alone a coherent argument explaining why it is so important that it should be placed above (instead of) sex-based rights and protections.

That’s because there isn’t one. They keep saying rights, when they really mean privileges and concessions. They want the privilege of going into spaces not designated for them, and the concession of their worldview being upheld above all others.
These are things that nobody else gets.

But if they were honest about it, people would see it for the power grab that it is, so they reframe it as the struggle of of a marginalised group fighting for their rightful place in society. Which is nonsense.

It’s like when they say that we are trying to deny their existence…that doesn’t make any sense - they exist, I can see them, I can talk to them.
What they really mean is that we are denying their view of themselves by not reinforcing it. Which again is something that nobody gets to demand of everyone else.

If you look up Queer Theory you will understand why they are trying to police language so much. QT asserts that the words are the reality, and reality needs to be shoehorned into them. But to make this work, they need to ensure that everyone plays along, because if we don’t it breaks the facade.

It easy enough to create this false reality in an online world, where you shape and mould whatever you want, you can delete things that don’t comply, and edit things to fit the way you want. And make sure that your main communication is with others who reinforce your version of ‘reality’.
But when they are faced with the offline world, and people who don’t agree, it all falls apart. Because there is no material reality to back it up, only the constructed words. That’s also why they get angry, the illusion is broken.

@Datun

The tories are inviting Rosie duffield to join them?

Is this some sort of ostensibly behind-the-scenes support of gender critical women?

Because if it is, for fuck's sake, why can't they just come out and say it?

Why can't they just be upfront, instead of this odd gesture. It's like they're playing bloody games.

Games are a big part of politics.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

I doubt it. Tory HQ will be monitoring the comments on articles in the Times, Telegraph and Daily Mail, which are overwhelmingly gender-critical. They have realised this is a wedge issue that they can use against Labour/the Lib Dems/SNP. But, at the same time, they want to keep a foot in the progressive camp, in case the wind changes - so Carrie is deployed. As she has no official standing, they can distance themselves from her if they wish.

I am under no illusions that Boris gives a flying fuck about women's rights but I don't think that the Tories are about to give up an issue that they can weaponise.

This is how I see it. Good cop bad cop. Carrie is good cop, Truss is bad cop. But the party has let a lot slide on its watch, driven by stonewall captured civil servants.

If you look up Queer Theory you will understand why they are trying to police language so much. QT asserts that the words are the reality, and reality needs to be shoehorned into them. But to make this work, they need to ensure that everyone plays along, because if we don’t it breaks the facade.

The strange thing is that so many politicians who chant 'trans women are women' criticise Boris Johnson for doing just this.

Brexit means Brexit, Trans Women are Women, Believe in Britain.

All seems the same to me.

But the party has let a lot slide on its watch, driven by stonewall captured civil servants.

I agree.

I think the two things you can say for the Conservatives are

1. those that don't believe in feminism are honest about it,
2. Conservative MPs who genuinely do believe that there is a conflict of rights are able to speak out.

Meanwhile Starmer/Sturgeon/Davey sound at best incompetent, which is saying a lot at the moment.

I would really like OP to explain what they actually meant in the first place.

It's really annoying when OPs post something vague, don't say what they mean or think. And then just bugger off!

I took the title to mean that if the CP takes the road of beginning to reject identity politics, feminism, which some think of as a type of identity politics, could get thrown out at the same time.

It is left to the reader to make of it what they will.

OP really should come back and expand.

Seem to be some weird assumptions there that would like to know the thinking behind.

Sorry. I've been reading the answers. I guess I should have said 'it seems to me that...'. I thought it was self explanatory tbh. There's a lot of stated decisions not to vote Labour on MN because of their stance on the legal meaning of 'woman'. It's just important to think how the government appears to be using this issue as a wedge. That's all really.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

I doubt it. Tory HQ will be monitoring the comments on articles in the Times, Telegraph and Daily Mail, which are overwhelmingly gender-critical. They have realised this is a wedge issue that they can use against Labour/the Lib Dems/SNP. But, at the same time, they want to keep a foot in the progressive camp, in case the wind changes - so Carrie is deployed. As she has no official standing, they can distance themselves from her if they wish.

I am under no illusions that Boris gives a flying fuck about women's rights but I don't think that the Tories are about to give up an issue that they can weaponise.

This actually makes sense to me. Its typical of the torys to hedge their bets and carrie is most definitely disposable.

@NonnyMouse1337

Why are trans activists aligning with Conservatives???

They always have. Christine Burns of “Press For Change” and numerous other Trans Advocacy Organisations said it was harder coming out as a Tory than as a TW, was active in Conservative Women in Cheshire and has been influential in institutional capture since the 1990’s.

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.md/1999.04.23-103416/www.pfc.org.uk/campaign/pfcaims.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">archive.md/1999.04.23-103416/www.pfc.org.uk/campaign/pfcaims.htm

NHS Policy on “sex = gender” is started under the Conservative Government in 2008 due to Burns’s influence and continued under Labour after the May 2010 election.

<a class="break-all" href="https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/20130123195237/www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_089941" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/20130123195237/www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_089941

The purpose of transgender activism is not to advance a particular political party but to realise it’s own aims, using whatever levers of power are most effective.

It would be naive to think that the Conservative Party is not being used just because the hordes of TRAs on Twitter are Self-ID Left Wingers.

TRAs are successfully alienating all the parties of the Left from their sane membership and voter base. Who does that help?

There is massive lobbying by TRAs within the Conservative Party against Liz Truss, Kemi Badenoch and other pro-reality Parliamentarians in both Houses.

It is extremely worrying that Carrie J has the ear of the PM and that he has been reduced to the same level of virtue-signalling waffle as the Labour leadership, though thankfully not as blatantly misogynistic as the Lib Dem’s.