Conflict of rights between Muslim man and trans man in USA

[TheBurmundseyIndustrialEstate]

‘Women Are Human’ have documented a court case between a male Muslim prisoner and a trans man as the prisoner did not want to be strip searched by the guard on religious grounds.
He has lost the case.
This means that there is no religious exemption from being strip searched by a transgender guard or presumably for women prisoners as well in the US.
I think the clashes between the Muslim religion are bound to become an issue.

www.womenarehuman.com/court-no-religious-exemption-from-strip-searches-by-opposite-sex-transgender-prison-guards-plaintiff-files-appeal/

This case is another example of why our Equality Act is so important.
Its not just Muslim men who would object to being searched by a transperson, and you have to wonder at the policies in that prison. Someone made the decision to let a transperson search a Muslim prisoner. That wasn't an accident.
I wonder how Muslim and other prisoners are treated generally in that prison.

It shouldn't even be a case of religious reasons. But a basic right not to ve searched by someone who's not the same sex as you.

This whole " list of acceptable reasons " thing is wrong whether its for men or women and I find it very disturbing to take someone to court for the right to see them naked. Wtf

I find it very disturbing to take someone to court for the right to see them naked. Wtf

Yes. This is a huge mess, and despite what we are told, there clearly is a conflict of rights here. The lawyer bringing the case quite rightly argued that the guard's rights didn't trump the prisoner's rights. (Or shouldn't.)

Not surprising. The law should be clear: prisoners should be searched by people of the same sex. It doesn't matter your religion or identity or anything else.

Yes. This is a huge mess, and despite what we are told, there clearlyisa conflict of rights here. The lawyer bringing the case quite rightly argued that the guard's rights didn't trump the prisoner's rights. (Or shouldn't.)

I know people often don't care about people in prison but the way I see it is if we as a society or staff do not treat people according to basic concepts such as consent and usual expected basic level behaviour then how are we any better than the criminals tbe other side if the bars.

This is state sanctioned sexual assult whatever way u look at it

It isnt just prisons. I was thinking about this after being "patted down" going through airport security recently. I was thinking how unpleasant it would be for anyone in that situation if the airport staff member was the opposite sex. Currently same sex checks are taken for granted. That could change.

If I asked for a female to search me, and there were females available to do it but instead they sent a male to strip me naked and search me, I'd consider it sexual assault.

Very disturbing. Why are the rights of a trans person considered more important than everyone else's? This is all shades of wrong.

People on mental health wards who need to be observed in showers should also not be deliberately misled about the sex of the staff member in order to protect the staff member.

This is unbelievable, really.

It is a clear conflict of rights, yes, but surely in such a situation the rights of the person who is vulnerable as a result of being made to strip naked in front of another person trump the rights of the one who is in a position of power. The prison officer does not need to conduct that search as another officer could do it instead.

Shocking verdict imo, regardless of whether the prisoner was Muslim or not.

US Law specifically states that convicted detainees do not enjoy most constitutional rights, and the Thirteenth Amendment states plainly that the status of prisoners is akin to legalised slavery.

Yep, this is all about putting more power in the hands of white men.

I witnessed something similar at an Orthodox synagogue I sometimes attend (I'm a progressive Jew but have family connections on the orthodox side). Two transmen came, and sat in the men's section. The Rabbi didn't realise they were biological women, and shook their hands, which is strictly forbidden in ultra-Orthodoxy. I felt terrible for him. He had no idea that he'd been forced to break such an integral rule.

Personally I don't see this as a conflict of rights. We do not have the right to do whatever we want regardless of the impact on others. That's why we have laws against theft, murder, rape, drink driving etc. You can't just identify as whatever you want and expect to have 'rights' connected with that. This is actually just a clear case of abuse of power.

Whatiswrongwithmyknee

"Yep, this is all about putting more power in the hands of white men."

Race has nothing to do with this. It doesn't matter what race you are, most people can see that this situation is very wrong.

@AlexaShutUp

This is unbelievable, really.

It is a clear conflict of rights, yes, but surely in such a situation the rights of the person who is vulnerable as a result of being made to strip naked in front of another person trump the rights of the one who is in a position of power. The prison officer does not need to conduct that search as another officer could do it instead.

Shocking verdict imo, regardless of whether the prisoner was Muslim or not.

And where this leads is to males who 'identify as' women being allowed to strip search women prisoners.

Transmen like this one are just paving the way for predatory males.

There are also people around them facilitating this. Those people are supposed to understand and uphold safeguarding.

And where this leads is to males who 'identify as' women being allowed to strip search women prisoners.

There's also female prison guards to consider, too. I think it was in California, where a few female prison guards spoke anonymously ahead of all the trans transfers. They were going to be forced to search male prisoners that identified as women, and if they objected they'd be punished/sacked. They seemed terrified.

I think the female guards in Ireland were put in a similar position?

Forcing women to strip dangerous males.

Forcing someone of the opposite sex onto a someone against their wishes, when a member of the same sex is available to do it...It's just sickening, the whole thing. Very sinister.

There are also people around them facilitating this. Those people are supposed to understand and uphold safeguarding

Now that countries like the States and Scotland Ireland and England etc have opened up the opportunity to dismantle safguarding , my sincere worry is that all the decent prison officers will quit. They won't want to be a part of or work for a system that allows prisoners to be treated this way. So who does that leave in charge of the prisoners and policies? What people will choose to work in and environment where its now protocol to abuse the prisoners.

Whatever anyone has done , sexual assult, rape etc are not registered punishments that is not what they are meant to be signed up for. Prison is the punishment. The loss of freedom. Its not down to staff to inflict theor own set if punishments.

@andyoldlabour

Whatiswrongwithmyknee

"Yep, this is all about putting more power in the hands of white men."

Race has nothing to do with this. It doesn't matter what race you are, most people can see that this situation is very wrong.

Agreed.

If you look at the worst countries in the world to be a woman, all of them are in Africa, Asia or the Middle East: Niger (Africa), Sudan (Africa), Mali (Africa), Iraq (Middle East), Democratic Republic of Congo (Africa), Central African Republic (Africa), Pakistan (Asia), Yemen (Middle East), Afghanistan (Asia) and Syrian Arab Republic (Middle East).

Best countries to be female: Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, Slovenia, Germany, Canada, Ireland, Australia. All, except for Australia and Canada, are in Europe.

Funny that all of those countries have a majority white population. Now tell me again how "this is all about putting more power in the hands of white men".

@EishetChayil

I witnessed something similar at an Orthodox synagogue I sometimes attend (I'm a progressive Jew but have family connections on the orthodox side). Two transmen came, and sat in the men's section. The Rabbi didn't realise they were biological women, and shook their hands, which is strictly forbidden in ultra-Orthodoxy. I felt terrible for him. He had no idea that he'd been forced to break such an integral rule.

Were they visiting the community? Did you sense that they were orthodox observant or that they were doing this for political reasons rather than carrying out their normal religious practice?

Whatever anyone has done , sexual assult, rape etc are not registered punishments that is not what they are meant to be signed up for. Prison is the punishment. The loss of freedom. Its not down to staff to inflict theor own set if punishments.

I'm apprehensive that we're going to end up with a prison system that starts to resemble the US one in parts and that this will be reflected in the calibre of the officers.

Its most likely gone to court because the system is in a mess. The result hopefully will be that the court will decide what is or isn't acceptable and the prison and prison service can adjust their working practices from there.

From the OP it looks like the prisoner has already been to court and lost. Court rules trans prison guards have the right to search prisoners of the opposite sex.

Appalling but unsurprising. Since they allow transwomen into women's prisons there's no reason to draw the line at trans prison officers.

Funny that all of those countries have a majority white population. Now tell me again how "this is all about putting more power in the hands of white men"

In the UK and US, this is all about putting more power in the hands of white men as in these countries those are the most powerful groups.