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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

UK parliament LBGT booklet

66 replies

HDDD · 01/10/2021 16:47

Just got it by email.
Great, nice resource to celebrate LGBT history month.
Until we get to

  1. Trans
Describes people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.

ASSIGNED, again!

and

  1. Gender identity
Everyone has a gender identity. This is the gender that someone feels they are. This may be male, female or something else (see non-binary), which may or may not correspond to the sex assigned at birth.

I don't have a sodding gender identity.

assets-learning.parliament.uk/uploads/2021/09/LGBT-History-Month_Book.pdf?_ga=2.76646229.1183188040.1633102727-1260140198.1632403803

OP posts:
TimeToDateAgain · 05/10/2021 17:55

@HDDD

I have had a reply...the definitions came from Stonewall, AND "in light of your feedback (we) have taken the decision to temporarily remove the glossary from the booklet, pending a further review of all the definitions."
It's always helpful for these things to be archived for comparative purposes: assets-learning.parliament.uk/uploads/2021/09/LGBT-History-Month_Book.pdf?_ga=2.76646229.1183188040.1633102727-1260140198.1632403803" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20211005165222/assets-learning.parliament.uk/uploads/2021/09/LGBT-History-Month_Book.pdf?_ga=2.76646229.1183188040.1633102727-1260140198.1632403803
OneEpisode · 05/10/2021 18:31

And to balance the sexes, imho one of the men could be edited out, it’s Liam

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5459013/Men-supporting-women--screenings-banned-waiting-room.html

Jaysmith71 · 05/10/2021 18:33

Repacae him with Angela Eagle, first out-Lesbian MP.

bonbonours · 05/10/2021 18:59

This is what i wrote. I've had no reply.

I am writing to express my concern about the inaccurate information that is published in the Government published LGBT History month booklet.
I am concerned that the definitions in this booklet are scientifically inaccurate and misleading, and this sort of information should not be being given to schools and thereby children.

The booklet describes trans-people as being "people whose gender is not the same as the sex they were assigned at birth". Sex is not assigned at birth. Sex is observed by medical professionals, based on the biological reality of the child's body. This is often done in utero, via a 20 week scan, and confirmed at birth.

It also states that "everyone has a gender identity". This is also untrue. Many people believe that gender is a social construct based purely on stereotypes and that they do not define themselves by any gender label. They accept their biological sex as a fact of life, based on the physical attributes of their body, and the make up of their DNA. Their sex does not necessarily mean that they do, or should follow the stereotypical attributes of a female/male/other gender label.

For example, a biological woman who wears jeans, jumpers, no make up and short hair is still a woman, even if she may be mistaken for a man. This does not mean she labels herself with a male gender identity, it may simply be that she has no interest in conforming to gender stereotypes and wears what she is most comfortable wearing. She considers herself a woman because of her biology, not because she has a 'female gender identity'.

Information that is given out to children and young people by the Government should consist of facts, not statements that are inaccurate and misleading.

Eucalyptustrees · 05/10/2021 19:11

Christine Burns was born in 1954 in Essex and was raised as a boy.
As she grew up, Christine realised that she was transgender. She had
always known she was female.

Given mine and no doubt many other women's experiences of growing up and spending their working adult lives with people born as boys in 1954 and thereabouts I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in anything they have to say about life as a woman.

That generation of men are the reason for the current gender pay and pension gap for women over 50.

I am appalled that anyone would think that young people should be influenced by someone with values about women from that era.

Hathertonhariden · 05/10/2021 19:12

@bonbonours

This is what i wrote. I've had no reply.

I am writing to express my concern about the inaccurate information that is published in the Government published LGBT History month booklet.
I am concerned that the definitions in this booklet are scientifically inaccurate and misleading, and this sort of information should not be being given to schools and thereby children.

The booklet describes trans-people as being "people whose gender is not the same as the sex they were assigned at birth". Sex is not assigned at birth. Sex is observed by medical professionals, based on the biological reality of the child's body. This is often done in utero, via a 20 week scan, and confirmed at birth.

It also states that "everyone has a gender identity". This is also untrue. Many people believe that gender is a social construct based purely on stereotypes and that they do not define themselves by any gender label. They accept their biological sex as a fact of life, based on the physical attributes of their body, and the make up of their DNA. Their sex does not necessarily mean that they do, or should follow the stereotypical attributes of a female/male/other gender label.

For example, a biological woman who wears jeans, jumpers, no make up and short hair is still a woman, even if she may be mistaken for a man. This does not mean she labels herself with a male gender identity, it may simply be that she has no interest in conforming to gender stereotypes and wears what she is most comfortable wearing. She considers herself a woman because of her biology, not because she has a 'female gender identity'.

Information that is given out to children and young people by the Government should consist of facts, not statements that are inaccurate and misleading.

Excellent
HummingBeeBox · 05/10/2021 23:46

Phew! Bit late but sent it anyway. Very long. I pasted the glossary in and annotated it. I know it has been removed but I wanted to show the seriousness of this and raise my concerns for the record.

EyesOpening · 02/11/2021 09:49

I see there is a glossary again, I haven’t had a good look to see what, if anything, has changed.

OldCrone · 02/11/2021 13:00

I can't see a glossary in the current version.
assets-learning.parliament.uk/uploads/2021/10/LGBT-History-Month_Oct.pdf

EyesOpening · 02/11/2021 13:41

Oh, I just clicked the link in the OP, so that’s still the same then. I wonder why they haven’t taken that one down as anyone who has that bookmarked will still see the glossary.

Artichokeleaves · 02/11/2021 13:50

Christine Burns was born in 1954 in Essex and was raised as a boy.
As she grew up, Christine realised that she was transgender. She had
always known she was female.

No, Christine Burns is not female, female is a biological fact and reality, not an identity. Christine Burns is a biological male who identifies as a transwoman.

ScrollingLeaves · 03/11/2021 15:19

Under transphobia it includes beliefs about lesbian and gay people .

Surely this conflation is gobbledygook or is there something I don’t understand?

Artichokeleaves · 03/11/2021 15:27

Again its politically re defining homophobia to a political agenda. I have often been accused (as an L person) of being homophobic for not agreeing that someone biologically male is a potential sexual partner or a lesbian, and transphobic at the same time.

Stonewall guide the law. They advise on policy. I am starting to think there is some extremely cynical actions going on while people are obfusticated by language choices so don't realise or put barriers in the way. For example relying on traditional shared meaning of words like 'homophobia' to gain agreement while actually meaning something with their personal definition of that word that many would not agree with.

At the end of this mess, while picking up the pieces, a lack of cynicism and critical thinking by well intentioned people is going to be an issue that comes up a lot.

ScrollingLeaves · 03/11/2021 15:29

It’s good there is a new one without the glossary.

Feelingoktoday · 03/11/2021 15:36

@Eucalyptustrees

*Christine Burns was born in 1954 in Essex and was raised as a boy. As she grew up, Christine realised that she was transgender. She had always known she was female.*

Given mine and no doubt many other women's experiences of growing up and spending their working adult lives with people born as boys in 1954 and thereabouts I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in anything they have to say about life as a woman.

That generation of men are the reason for the current gender pay and pension gap for women over 50.

I am appalled that anyone would think that young people should be influenced by someone with values about women from that era.

Yes I agree. I wasn’t allowed to study woodwork or metal work or run a marathon when I was at school - also in Essex. And I use to wear jeans and my brother’s jumpers. I assuming it was because of my sex 🤷🏻‍♀️
lazylinguist · 03/11/2021 16:21

I know I’m a woman but that doesn’t mean I have a gender identity. I’m Me in a female body, and that’s how I know I’m a woman.

Exactly. And how can anyone claim to know what 'feeling like a woman' feels like, since all they have ever experienced is feeling like themselves?

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