Is the tide turning? Women's rights in the news

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So this week Sarah Everard's 's police-officer murderer is sentenced to full life, the police come under the spotlight for institutionalised misogyny, joky 'rapist' nicknames, femicides by policemen and there are calls for no more male-only arrests & transportation of female prisoners.

A report states the obvious - that allowing trans women into women's sports is unfair and unsafe, but so many had felt too frightened for their jobs and their safety to speak out.

Labour politicians' ludicrous statements about what a woman is attract mass ridicule during the Brighton conference.

Is there hope?

🤞

There's beginning to be pushback in the UK.

The US is so totally captured, though. I haven't read a US-based article about pregnancy that post-dates 2018 that refers to 'pregnant women'. It is only ever 'pregnant people'. And there's certainly no mention of motherhood anywhere. It's the Brave New World.

I really, really wish the US would wake up.

I thought the tide was turning a while back, but what has been revealed over the past couple of years is the sheer scale of the thing.

It looked a few weeks ago as if Stonewall was looking shaky, but now it’s looking more like a small tremor occurred, but everything up has moved on and it’s still largely intact.

The debate is now beginning in the UK, but it looks like some political parties are so dug in, that it’ll take a massive sea-change for them to shift. I find it interesting to see though, how hard some of these parties are now having to bend the rules and cheat to keep their preferred candidates in place, once the GC argument begins to be made. It’s still mostly women’s groups where that’s happening, but it’s a strong indicator that where transactivism has taken over, it’s not popular in the longer term. I think the harms become apparent quite quickly, which should be obvious because no male can really represent women as he doesn’t have the experience of what it feels like to actually be one.

I’ve also been interested to see stirrings in the US and that is new to me. Prior to Biden’s changes, there didn’t seem to be much pushback. Again, I suspect that the more these new laws and rules push more and more men, some of them predatory, into women’s spaces, and people begin to see the effects, they will receive more and more pushback. Those on this board are not generally keen on the US religious right, but there’s no doubt that religion has a much greater sway on politics over there. There could be some interesting clashes.

So I’m not holding my breath. I’m not completely convinced that we’ll ultimately be successful, even though I do believe we have right on our side. It used to be said that the biggest backlash will occur when the rising cohort of transitioned girls grow up and realise they’ve been sterilized, have had unnecessary surgery, their bones are crumbling, and actually, they’re not any happier (as they had been promised they would be). I hope we don’t have to wait that long.

Every time I think there is hope, I soon get disillusioned. You'd think that, with all the concern about murdered women, sexual assault in schools, etc, there might be some sympathy for women and girls wanting safe spaces. But nope, they save their support for "the most marginalised" people in society, blokes who think they're women (and expect us to believe it too). Makes me want to cry......

The thing is, although I want women's rights restored, I also want the ideology to fade in a fashion that's kind to those such as my young transman relative. Those who have damaged a healthy body in pursuit of it.

I don't think there is an answer to that one. I know that it makes more sense to reverse things now, admit that women stay women and men stay men whatever their inner view of themselves, reserve 'transition' for only those with awful dysphoria, and save the next generation from equal damage to their physical health.

But our family's youngster, and so many of my friends' kids and my kids' friends, have already gone too far to reverse out of it. I don't speak up on Facebook or other social media because it would be cruel to those I know.

It used to be said that the biggest backlash will occur when the rising cohort of transitioned girls grow up and realise they’ve been sterilized

A WHRC webinar earlier this year had a presentation by a Swedish author (Kajsa Ekis Ekman) who reported that she had been contacted by a Swedish infertility clinician who claimed to be seeing increasing numbers of women in their 20s who (after testing) have atrophy of their reproductive organs. These are women who had been treated with puberty blockers and cross hormones at a young age (Dutch protocol) and gone on to have difficulty with conception. (It seems that they had detransitioned but this wasn't entirely clear.)

@Thelnebriati

No the tide isn't turning, there's no going back. We have been neatly divided into different camps on multiple issues. I don't know what the future will bring but it looks like its going to be authoritarian.

Think you right. Is in news saying women need to be safe on streets but biggest danger is at home. Is not police biggest danger to women. Is not police that can help more women be safe. Is councils and support organisations but people get angry when is said. Is very bad thing that happened and very bad man but is not what kills women every week.

Sorry think is not what you all talking about here but the authoritarian thing is same thing. People only want to hear one thing one opinion and don't want to think about wider things. Think is group think. Am victim and people maybe think am stupid for being one but people don't understand other people's lives how easy sometimes. Am not stupid about knowing what is the problems.

The stories of astonishingly blatant women-hating violence (Sarah Everard et al) will be 'last month's news' soon enough and when people have paid the appropriate amount of lip service they'll move on to the next thing (I'm still reeling at how little has been done re Grenfell, as an example).

The other women's rights stuff - I think the 'average' person must be more aware now at least of what is happening? I don't think there is any huge change but I think resistance is quietly increasing.

It will still be hard work to achieve any progress. But I think we will.

I am absolutely shattered this week from what’s gone on: The Lancet, the moronic comments from members of the Labour Party (I am a now resigned, previously dedicated ex member), Sarah Everard. I don’t think the tide is turning, but I am heartened to see such wonderful women speaking out and saying no. Amongst all of this bat shittery, sunlight is streaming in. I do think we are now at our most vulnerable though, those who’ve digested the mantras, convinced themselves ‘it’s all so inclusive, and all so kind’ will now double down, because even if they don’t actually believe what they are saying, there’s turning back for them now. I think the best we can hope for right now is that the Tories use ‘cervix gate’ as a cynical political weapon therefore cementing their position not to reform the GRA. But if public opinion turns or the pressure from the TRAs gets too much, the Tories will be no friends of our either. We need to keep fighting like never before.

*there’s NO turning back for them now.

I think we could do with a Panorama type expose of the policies around women’s single sex facilities, girl guides, swim England etc Stonewall capture in the NHS etc. the true level of TRA hate etc.

Yes!!

How Index on Censorship has treated Maya Forstater's right to reply to their accusation of criminal hate speech:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4363070-Maya-Forstater-and-How-Index-on-Censorship-Handled-Her-Right-of-Reply-to-Their-Accusation-of-Criminal-Hate-Speech

That's Index on Censorship attacking and undermining a woman like this.

Some good news today about sports, and there seems to be more people speaking out and saying this madness has to end. For the first time I can see a future where people struggle to believe things ever went this far.

I think it is turning. The decision by the IK sports council was reported on by Sky sports and that will get attention. Although the reporter did mention cis women and was a bit tongue tied with that. How, I think that is a good thing as I think most men watching that would wonder what a cis woman is bringing in a bit more sunlight.

Social media, particularly Twitter, just isn't real life.

Yet on Twitter, 24 months ago I would have said that the TRA's could be fairly confident of being able to outnumber those trying to make a GC comment or response.

Now, thanks mostly to over-enthusiastic block lists, the TRA's don't even get a look-in most of the time. And their number, even on threads by the likes of The-Scottish-Man-Terrified-Of-Ribbons seem to be plummeting.

So the TL's of say Ed 'Check his Hard-drive' Davey and David 'Please Gift Me A GCE-level Biology Textbook For Xmas' Lammy are dominated by GC women and men, routinely ripping such politicians apart in a very angry manner.

That though is social media. Not Real Life.

The Peaked though have though made their impact in The Real World. Through the medium of stickers, the slate-art, the posters, ribbons, tee-shirts and badges. I saw the first reference to a town centre stall being established just this week.

The TRA's/incels can't easily respond - a tee-shirt with 'Trans-women are Women' or 'Punch a T$EF' is likely to peak more than it gains approval from by a huge margin.

I don't think the tide has turned, but the organisation and the momentum behind the fightback is definitely increasing, in my perception.

Helen Joyce's Trans has helped enormously in recent months. The TRA's/incels just don't have anything to match it. Shon Faye, who had managed peak ten-of-thousands, perhaps hundreds-of-thousands with her 'enjoy your erasure' comment, needed to pay off the debt from causing so much damage to the gender-ideology cause - though I doubt they even recognise the debt exists. Regardless though they delivered...a mess, and one that is unlikely to convince the undecided to back the TRA/incel cause. Trans though does precisely the opposite of The Transgender Issue and Joyce expertly crafted it, not to preach, but to encourage the reader to do their own research and reach their own conclusions.

The TRA's/incels depend on the bigotry of their supporters, and their unwillingness to even consider an opposing view. #nodebate was intended to encourage bigotry, but now they are trapped in a reality where their views are absolutely understood, and picked-apart adroitly by an increasingly-knowledgeable campaign of organised opposition.

I would want to add that I don't think the TRA/incel supporters will, for the most part, suddenly switch to the GC/women-and-children's right view.

More likely, they'll just slip away, drop out, disengage from issuing death-and-rape threats, encouraging Cancel Culture, promoting anti-science ideology...deleting past posts and trying to erase any association with the TRA/incel cause.

I think tomorrow may be a turning point depending what the results are in the green party leadership vote.

If it goes the way we all hope, and polls begin to show a swell of support for the Greens as a result, the Conservatives may decide to take action before the next election to prevent a loss of support. A bit like they had to offer the referendum to stop people voting UKIP.

The fundamental problem, as I see it is that many people, women and men, find the concept of women's rights all just a bit embarrassing and uncomfortable.

No, we do to want to talk about that, yes there are so many more worthy issues, goodness don't women have enough rights, which takes some people to, oh women who want to talk about women's rights are hoarding rights or just, be kind.

The underlying tone is, it's undignified to demand rights for ourselves.

Fuck that.

It's always been this way. There is no reason in the world to start demanding respectable feminists now.

Do to = dont

There is no reason in the world to start demanding respectable feminists now.

That gave me a flashback to when we all wanted to be a disrespectful woman I'm fairly sure that we longing to be disreputable at one point as well.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3378698-Disrespectful-Woman-Posie-P-on-This-Morning

The TRA's/incels can't easily respond - a tee-shirt with 'Trans-women are Women' or 'Punch a T$EF' is likely to peak more than it gains approval from by a huge margin

You have a very good point here. Not much of what they say could fit on the t shirt or would be snappy enough . Wrong side of history, maybe but the response of "wrong side of biology" would counter it easily.

@Thelnebriati

No the tide isn't turning, there's no going back. We have been neatly divided into different camps on multiple issues. I don't know what the future will bring but it looks like its going to be authoritarian.

Xould you explain a little "neatly divided into different camps"? I am playing catch up here, am a little late to this party.

@EdgeOfACoin

There's beginning to be pushback in the UK.

The US is so totally captured, though. I haven't read a US-based article about pregnancy that post-dates 2018 that refers to 'pregnant women'. It is only ever 'pregnant people'. And there's certainly no mention of motherhood anywhere. It's the Brave New World.

I really, really wish the US would wake up.

A big problem in the US is that women who are GC have no political home! The Democrats are fully in the Transwomen Are Women camp, and you are what you feel. So the only place for them to go is to the Republicans who are on the right side of this for the wrong reasons. But they are grim at the moment. It is very difficult for GC women in the US now.

@DodoPatrol

The thing is, although I want women's rights restored, I also want the ideology to fade in a fashion that's kind to those such as my young transman relative. Those who have damaged a healthy body in pursuit of it.

I don't think there is an answer to that one. I know that it makes more sense to reverse things now, admit that women stay women and men stay men whatever their inner view of themselves, reserve 'transition' for only those with awful dysphoria, and save the next generation from equal damage to their physical health.

But our family's youngster, and so many of my friends' kids and my kids' friends, have already gone too far to reverse out of it. I don't speak up on Facebook or other social media because it would be cruel to those I know.

A lot of posters on this board do worry that the overreach of the TRAs will trigger a massive backlash and that innocent people will be affected. The TRAs are setting gay and lesbian attitudes back a generation.