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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

How can I talk to my TWAW daughter?

59 replies

bonbonours · 30/09/2021 07:03

I have one daughter who currently identifies as male. This is something we are struggling with as a family. My second daughter 13 identifies as gay and is quite involved with LGBT group at school and is very firmly on the TWAW opinion. She's in the midst of friends (and her sibling) telling her that anyone who doesn't agree is transphobic and everyone who comes out as trans should be affirmed and supported, and there are a lot in her friend group questioning their gender.

I saw a text she sent to a friend where she described me as "my transphobic mum". This upset me because generally we have a good relationship and before all this gender stuff exploded I considered myself very laid back, and accepting, loads of gay friends and family, passionate about gay rights, would be very accepting of teen sex (and would ensure they knew how to do it safely) etc. Suddenly I'm being painted as some kind of prejudiced dinosaur.

I really want to talk to her about what I believe about gender being a totally separate issue from sexuality, the trans trend, and the threat to women's rights. But I don't really know where to start. Is there anything for her to read? ( If I can persuade her)

OP posts:
PinkyU · 30/09/2021 07:15

Honestly, just don’t. You won’t be able to have a conversation with her, about this, without coming across as you trying to convince her that you’re right.

She is 13, she’s working through some complex things with a still maturing mind. If you don’t tread VERY carefully you may find yourself alienated from your child/ren.

Let her figure this out for now, be open to listening to her, not debating or challenging her. You can let her know that you disagree with her stance but that her opinion is valid and you respect her journey on forming her thoughts on it. Then don’t bring it back up unless she does and if/when she does - listen -.

That’s how you keep the lines of communication open and keep a level of respect happening.

Theunamedcat · 30/09/2021 07:19

Don't discuss it I don't with my daughter I do however point out that there is a reason people fake being transgender and its to get away from there dead name these conversations always end with us agreeing that it's a loophole it needs to be closed

Pootles34 · 30/09/2021 07:19

I agree with PinkyU. This isn't the first time a teenager disagrees with a parent on an ideological matter, and the relationship, and your daughters wellbeing and trust in you, is more important. I would drop it, and if it comes up very gently discuss it, without presuming that you're right.

PermanentTemporary · 30/09/2021 07:22

It's hurtful to have that moment where your child defines themselves by not being you, and of course you want to do something about that hurt, but I agree with PinkyU.

Billybagpuss · 30/09/2021 07:22

Absolutely what pinky says.

You may find the opportunity arises, ie her friend is anxious about coming round to your house and you can ask how she expects any different when she has unfairly painted you as transphobic, but just leave her to it for now, she’ll find her own way through and being able to come to you when she needs to is the most important thing right now.

Original poster
bonbonours · 30/09/2021 07:24

She is very interested in women's rights, lived the Suffragette film etc so I feel like that could be the key thing with her.

It's not so much that I want to persuade her it's more I want to open her mind to other viewpoints and why they might not be transphobic, maybe talking about other people she's aware of eg JKR and Rosie Duffield (who is our MP)

OP posts:
MoiraNotRuby · 30/09/2021 07:24

My DD is similar and we don't discuss it too often because it is the same conversation every time. I don't want her to get entrenched by repeating herself. Hopefully she'll work it out in time.

She knows I 'support everyone' and she also knows 'I'm confused about how things are labelled as being male or female'- e.g. why can't men wear skirts/make up if they want, why do we label them as female/ trans if they do. I always assert that my confusion is with society, perhaps its down to the patriarchy, is there toxic masculinity at the heart of it.

And without wanting to sound flippant I am very enthusiastic about non trans role models who don't follow society norms e.g. David Bowie who is a teen icon at the moment and shows you can be whoever you want without putting a stupid fecking label on it.

Good luck OP, I'm with you.

Fitt · 30/09/2021 07:26

Maybe just neutrally tell her that calling people phobic is not ok, that smearing people in this way can lead to broken families and to violence against innocent people as it escalates out of control.

Tell you think it's important that doesn't happen to your family and you're sure she agrees with that?

timeisnotaline · 30/09/2021 07:35

I too think don’t. Don’t talk about it. Her brain will just see ENEMY ENEMY ENEMY. Emphasise values, consideration, safety.

gamerchick · 30/09/2021 07:39

I wouldn't, gift of eternal knowledge kicks in around that age. But I would be telling her if she slags me off over a phone privilege provided by me she would be losing the thing.

Beamur · 30/09/2021 07:49

I wouldn't either. You need to talk to kids about this stuff before their peers do. Now you will likely be seen as judgemental and out of touch.
Keep talking about women's rights - good that she's interested in that.
I would always say ask questions rather than tell. Get her to explain to you why she thinks certain things.
But I wouldn't tolerate the name calling either. Tolerance goes both ways or not at all. She wants you to respect her but she has to learn that she also has to be respectful of difference of opinion.

DontAskIDontKnow · 30/09/2021 08:00

I recommend listening to the You Are Not So Smart podcast. It covers a lot of this sort of social psychology.

You can’t change someone’s perspective for them. What you can do is listen a lot and ask questions. Eventually the right questions will get them thinking, but it takes skill to not be judgemental during these conversations.

Helleofabore · 30/09/2021 08:03

I agree. It is likely to not be well received. Stick to discussing women’s rights and if the discussion then follows to how a particular impact is affecting women’s rights then it is natural to discuss it.

Once they see that you are actually more interested in supporting women’s and girl’s rights it gets less fraught. And by their rights, that includes the need to ensure trans health options for females are fully evidenced and focuses on female’s needs.

Warmduscher · 30/09/2021 08:08

I agree, just avoid having the conversation with her. DD and I get in perfectly well without discussing her TWAW views. I’m convinced that in time she’ll realise what trans activism is doing to women’s rights.

Out of interest though, how did you manage to read a text on her phone? I presume she wasn’t aware you did?

2lsinllama · 30/09/2021 08:17

She’s 13. Bad mouthing you to her friends is practically compulsory. She may not have even meant it or believe it.
I wouldn’t say anything unless she brings it up, particularly as she might question how you found out how she felt about you and consider it a breach of trust.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 30/09/2021 08:50

I'd say something. She needs to be told not to be so disrespectful and she also needs to be told her views are factually incorrect. I might sound harsh, but pussyfooting around won't help her in her biology exams and when she's an adult, which will be soon enough, and joins the world of work, she'll need to know how to get on with adults who know more than she does and will disagree with her. Which she will eventually but the quicker she can the better. We can't be afraid to correct our children.

Childrenofthestones · 30/09/2021 08:52

Try giving her a copy of Irreversible damage by Abigail Shrier
If she wont read, get her to listen to the Bari Weiss podcast interview with Shrier.

Original poster
bonbonours · 30/09/2021 08:53

@gamerchick

I wouldn't, gift of eternal knowledge kicks in around that age. But I would be telling her if she slags me off over a phone privilege provided by me she would be losing the thing.
She doesn't know I saw that message and I worry about being criticised for"snooping" on her phone if I mention it.
OP posts:
Warmduscher · 30/09/2021 08:53

@Alltheprettyseahorses

I'd say something. She needs to be told not to be so disrespectful and she also needs to be told her views are factually incorrect. I might sound harsh, but pussyfooting around won't help her in her biology exams and when she's an adult, which will be soon enough, and joins the world of work, she'll need to know how to get on with adults who know more than she does and will disagree with her. Which she will eventually but the quicker she can the better. We can't be afraid to correct our children.
I agree, but the OP implies she read messages on her DD’s phone without asking first if that was ok, so that will become the focus of the discussion if the DD asks how she found out she called her mum transphobic.
gamerchick · 30/09/2021 08:56

She doesn't know I saw that message and I worry about being criticised for"snooping" on her phone if I mention it

The privilege of owning a phone at that age comes with parents being able to check it. But that's outlined at the start. It's for their own safety.

Childrenofthestones · 30/09/2021 09:01

OP "She doesn't know I saw that message and I worry about being criticised for"snooping" on her phone if I mention it."

It would be like throwing a bucket of petrol on a fire. You would likely never see her phone again. Possibly the worst thing you could do.

2lsinllama · 30/09/2021 09:05

I agree with pp about checking a teen’s phone but surely there also needs to be transparency in this? I will ask mine to hand over his phone at random times and look through it. He doesn’t know when I’m going to do this but he does then know what I’ve seen. I wouldn’t do it without his knowledge. (Then again I wouldn’t do this to DH and lots of people on here seem to do that)

Warmduscher · 30/09/2021 09:07

@gamerchick

She doesn't know I saw that message and I worry about being criticised for"snooping" on her phone if I mention it

The privilege of owning a phone at that age comes with parents being able to check it. But that's outlined at the start. It's for their own safety.

In your opinion.

I think building trust is more important - if a parent wants to snoop on their child’s phone, they need to be clear from the start that that is the condition of the child owning one.

Babdoc · 30/09/2021 09:10

Your 13 year old is gay? Tell her to google “cotton ceiling”. Job done.

gamerchick · 30/09/2021 09:13

In your opinion

I think building trust is more important - if a parent wants to snoop on their child’s phone, they need to be clear from the start that that is the condition of the child owning one.

That's what I said Hmm