Asking politicians 'can a woman have a penis'?

[EdgeOfACoin]

I've raised this on other threads.

Obviously, politicians all week have been stumbling over whether 'Woman: adult human female' is offensive, and debating whether only women have cervixes (cervices?)

What I want to see now are politicians challenged on whether a woman can have a penis. I want to see whether a senior politician is prepared to stand up and argue that a penis may be viewed as a female sex organ. I want to see this put to politicians on Andrew Marr etc.

Any ideas how we can make this happen?

And it is, of course, why you will not be allowed to say women and transmen. Because again, the word woman must not be based on biology.

I personally don't agree with saying women and transmen, but it would've been an easy workaround. But it was never offered, or advised, or acceptable.

@Elephantsparade

I didnt say the words dont need defining but I didnt feel the question did much to make that clear to people who hadnt already thought about the issue a lot.

my twitter was full of people saying they werent a woman and had a cervix. I literally couldnt understand what they thought the word woman meant and why they didnt identify with it.

Which is why I think people claiming to be be-penised women will make the point much clearer to the majority of people who haven't thought about the issue much.

The cervix can be a bit of an abstract thing to a lot of people, especially men.

Labour politicians facing the media and defending the term 'lady dick' (I suppose they would say 'female penis') would be much more helpful.

@FreeBritnee

I prefer the term ‘assigned female at birth’. I wrote recently that Ive seen this recently on lots of forms abd it doesn’t offend me at all.

You make it sound like the midwives arbitrarily drew straws.

"Assigned" how?

With a gender sorting hat?

(© JK Rowling)

This has gone so much further now than gently avoiding language that might be triggering to someone with dysphoria. What we have is our words being taken by force, without consent, males demanding we open wide for them, stripping us of our language, enlisting the muscle of the Establishment to force submission when we resist, chopping us into dehumanised body parts without a whole identity. The other side say words are powerful. They call a slip of the tongue 'literal violence' or a 'microaggression', and say identity is a feeling in the head 'affirmed' through language. Well, if that's the sort of terminology we are using now, this, what they are forcibly doing to the language of women, is linguistic sexual assault, linguistic dismemberment.

I think the better question to ask would be "Do men have vaginas?"

Politicians are fine to insult women because we don't matter, but is a politician ever going to openly say on TV that men have vaginas? Men wouldn't put up with that shit.

m.facebook.com/scotlandtonight/videos/695238850929143/
The wonderful Joan McAlpine asking that very question of the Greens' Lorna Slater on Scottish TV

@334bu

m.facebook.com/scotlandtonight/videos/695238850929143/ The wonderful Joan McAlpine asking that very question of the Greens' Lorna Slater on Scottish TV

Brilliant.

Nicky Campbell asked if someone with a penis was a woman this morning. It was to a Labour person, presumably male, going by the voice and name( sorry I didn't catch their name, I'd never heard of them before) just before 8 am on 5 live. He followed it up by asking if a woman with a penis should be in women's places such as prisons.

More sputtering from Labour as a reply, with a smattering of most marginalised, and toxic, and so on and so forth.

@334bu

m.facebook.com/scotlandtonight/videos/695238850929143/ The wonderful Joan McAlpine asking that very question of the Greens' Lorna Slater on Scottish TV

Fab, but that is Maggie Chapman (Scottish Greens) not Lorna Slater.

@DianaBrackley

Nicky Campbell asked if someone with a penis was a woman this morning. It was to a Labour person, presumably male, going by the voice and name( sorry I didn't catch their name, I'd never heard of them before) just before 8 am on 5 live. He followed it up by asking if a woman with a penis should be in women's places such as prisons.

More sputtering from Labour as a reply, with a smattering of most marginalised, and toxic, and so on and so forth.

More sputtering from Labour as a reply, with a smattering of most marginalised, and toxic, and so on and so forth.

Nothing compared to the sputtering if they are ever in a position to explain that they are passing legislation to give 155,000 male prisoners the right to move to the female estate which currently houses 11,000 women.

@DianaBrackley

Nicky Campbell asked if someone with a penis was a woman this morning. It was to a Labour person, presumably male, going by the voice and name( sorry I didn't catch their name, I'd never heard of them before) just before 8 am on 5 live. He followed it up by asking if a woman with a penis should be in women's places such as prisons.

More sputtering from Labour as a reply, with a smattering of most marginalised, and toxic, and so on and so forth.

That may have been Nick Thomas-Symonds, Shadow Home Secretary

@DianaBrackley

Nicky Campbell asked if someone with a penis was a woman this morning. It was to a Labour person, presumably male, going by the voice and name( sorry I didn't catch their name, I'd never heard of them before) just before 8 am on 5 live. He followed it up by asking if a woman with a penis should be in women's places such as prisons.

More sputtering from Labour as a reply, with a smattering of most marginalised, and toxic, and so on and so forth.

It was Labour's Shadow Home Secretary. I'm glad Nicky Campbell actually asked the question. Next time I hope the questioner pushes for more clarity on Labour's position on the EA, self ID and safe spaces for women: Starmer on Marr said he wanted to go further in the trans demands direction on that, Reeves sounded like she wanted it to stay as it is, though it wasn't entirely clear.

Nothing compared to the sputtering if they are ever in a position to explain that they are passing legislation to give 155,000 male prisoners the right to move to the female estate which currently houses 11,000 women.

Wouldn't it be great if the 155,000 male prisoners all declared themselves to be women. I think that would shine more sunlight than anything else.

What's the Tory position on this?
They largely seem to be silent (and not asked) despite the fact self ID is their legislation.

@Kendodd

What's the Tory position on this? They largely seem to be silent (and not asked) despite the fact self ID is their legislation.

A few tory MPs have come out seemingly in support of women

The reason Labour MPs are being asked the question and not Tories was at first because of Rosie Duffield, but Starmer has lit a fire under it and I don't think it will go away now

@Kendodd

What's the Tory position on this? They largely seem to be silent (and not asked) despite the fact self ID is their legislation.

Following consultation they no longer support self ID.

PronounssheRa

'That may have been Nick Thomas-Symonds, Shadow Home Secretary'

Yes it was, thanks! I probably should have known that but unfortunately Labour party members aren't really distinguishing themselves to me at the moment unless it's for provocative or incoherent statements.

Sorry got my Greens mixed up. Apologies to Lorna Slater

I'm with ColouringPencils about the use of language. I object to "people with cervixes/vaginas" with every fibre of my female being, but feel ready to accept "women and other people with cervixes". As long as we always, always put the word "women" first.

However, "people who give birth" is another matter. We can (or I can, anyway) accept that transmen would rather not have a cervix, but unfortunately for them removal of said cervix is no easy matter. But a transman who happily chooses to embrace his female anatomy by getting pregnant and giving birth is - in my view - having his cake and eating it.

(I'd apply the same argument to non-binaries, though admittedly there is the possibility of accidental pregnancy there.)

This is the info I received (in leaflet form) to invite me for cervical screening, under Who We Invite. www.gov.uk/government/publications/cervical-screening-description-in-brief/cervical-screening-helping-you-decide--2#who-we-invite